How to fix: Hive Tyrants

[heavyturtle]

I will be starting a series of posts focusing on how to fix different members of the tyranid swarm. For my first entry, i will be looking into the hive tyrant, my favorite tyranid model.

Hive tyrant: 175 points
Add 4++ lesser warp field
Add 25 point extended carapace upgrade (cant take wings)
Make tyrant gaurd 40 points
Give hive tyrant eternal warrior

The hive tyrant is pretty good as is, but certainly needs a boost to be competitive without wings. If anyone has more ideas, please share!

[nikh]

Make the 4++ an option rather than include, I wouldn't want to pay 20 extra points for a Flyrant that comes with Jink and fires TL weapons.

[heavyturtle]

Nihk, you certainly have a point, but the FHT will still be a good choice. It wont have to jink, so it can fire at full BS always. The FHT should be used less, both us and our opponents need a break.

[gigasnail]

a 4++ won't stop a flyrant from nearly always being a better choice, unless you give nids invisibility or something. it's too slow to get into combat w/o wings, it's going to draw too much fire on the ground w/o wing making it hard to hit, etc. now with S:D all over, if it's on the ground, it's going to be in a world of hurt.

ground based MC's are going to be at a severe disadvantage for a long time to come.

[Kark]

I think that access to BRB psychic disciplines could bring more balance and more flexibility to tyranid armies. For example divination can grant 4++ save, prescience can make room for other weapons than 2x twin devourers, invisibility cast on walking tyrant means that he doesn't have to swoop to be hit on 6s, shrouded let us play without venomthropes/malanthropes, biomancy would greatly improve melee tyrants and so on.

[WestRider]

Keep the basic statline as it is, but drop the base cost to something like 120 Points. Drop Tyrant Guard by like 10 Points per Model, too. Increase the upgrade costs for Wings and TL Devs a bit, so the Flyrant still ends up about the same. Then fix the Venom Cannon (No Blast, Assault 3-4), StrangleThorn Cannon (Shred, maybe?), and TL DeathSpitters (24" Range, S7) so it actually has some decent options that can be useful at walking pace.

[yowster12]

May 3, 2015 21:05:07 GMT WestRider said:

Keep the basic statline as it is, but drop the base cost to something like 120 Points. Drop Tyrant Guard by like 10 Points per Model, too. Increase the upgrade costs for Wings and TL Devs a bit, so the Flyrant still ends up about the same. Then fix the Venom Cannon (No Blast, Assault 3-4), StrangleThorn Cannon (Shred, maybe?), and TL DeathSpitters (24" Range, S7) so it actually has some decent options that can be useful at walking pace.

To this list Id add the 2+ save 4++ option and voila.

[biomassbob]

Apart from some needed changes to points, biomorphs, etc, to address issues with walking tyrants, the main thing IMO to help walking tyrants is to remove GC, LOW, TItan, IK from the game along with D weapons and probably a lot of flyers. Bring the scale of the game down a bit. The first problem is when a nid list needs 4 tyrants to be competitive something is seriously wrong. A hive tyrant, the essence of the hive mind, a creature that is supposed to control a vast invasion force - well, when 3-4 are needed in the tiny area of a battle where we play 40K something is seriously wrong.

That is my hope, as unlikely as it may be, that 40K is massively overhauled so that a nid army functions how I imagine a nid army to function.

[gigasnail]

keep the fluff justifications out of the rules, or we'll have two TAC marines squads destroying splinter fleets.

[BattleMetalChris]

May 3, 2015 21:47:02 GMT biomassbob said:

 The first problem is when a nid list needs 4 tyrants to be competitive something is seriously wrong. A hive tyrant, the essence of the hive mind, a creature that is supposed to control a vast invasion force - well, when 3-4 are needed in the tiny area of a battle where we play 40K something is seriously wrong.

This is the reason I'll never field multiple flyrants, winning be damned (I'm not a tournament player). They're supposed to be rare creatures with only a handful found on a single continent in a battle.

[jimmyp]

I do really hope next codex tyranids get a decent overhaul I do like the idea of walking hive tyrant...
I use one flyrant with tldblw usually maybe use the second one if I defiantly want to win.
I like the idea of a warp field inv save with 2+ armour save. The problem of Him foot slogging is pony to close combat is sad...

[gigasnail]

a walking tyrant has a death sentence in today's environment, even with 2+/4++/FNP. i wish you guys the best of luck with your wishlisting though.

[yowster12]

I know he would die horribly. In fact the D has nothing to do with it. DS Sernguard with meltas will fry a Tyrant. Las Preds too. Then the D will just murder it with a thought.


I just wanna be able to use him in friendly games without him dying in a turn against any power sword wielding Marine..

Yet i dont concur with the fluff reasons for not using a Tyrant.. As there are the same amount of reasons to do so fluffwise.

[powser]

Allow him to join units of warriors and shrikes.

[gigasnail]

so they can all die together? brilliant!

i'm sorry, i'll leave you kids alone now. that was low hanging fruit.