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Post by Kark on Apr 18, 2015 12:46:50 GMT
I think it's more an issue of stomp taking out your support/synapse units nearby, along with thinning out the tarpits. If they get a lucky 6 that's a Terv/Tyrant or whatever gone. Will need to be that extra little bit careful now. That's right. WK locked in combat can still hurt nearby units. Piling in can also move gargoyles away from synapse range (and possibly objectives). Other eldar units (like jetbikes) can take care of synapse creatures and remove fearless from gargoyles. I don't think that skilled eldar player would have any problems with gaunts at all.
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Post by Kark on Apr 18, 2015 12:50:34 GMT
It's not that optimistic, if you spread your gribs out around the GC how many do you think a 3" blast template will hit three times? Six? Nine?
A pile-in move says that models have to get into base contact with the target unit or as close as possible to it, and must remain within 2" coherency. It doesn't say anything about having to get into base contact with your own models already piled in, so use the 3" move of the closest gribs to spread them around the target's base facing them.
That trick works with plague bearers, because they have T4, 5++ and FNP, so they have a chance to save some wounds.
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Post by mattblowers on Apr 18, 2015 14:14:58 GMT
I think all the pessimism is DRASTICALLY over the top. Yes, WKs got S:D, but they also went to LOW slot. Yes formations allow up to 12 but who plays 5,000 point games? At that point it's apoc and S:D is the norm. WKs will be hard to tarpit, but you usually won't face more than 1. We haven't seen the rules on the new Wraithguard, maybe they can't take transports at all, if that is the case, then they have to do the slow march of death across the table. As to the scat bikes, yes, it's a lot of shooting, but so were the old ones.
Everyone seems to be ignoring that wave serpents got the nerfs we wanted to them. If the shields are 1 use only, then those transports will be fairly easy to pop. With scatter lasers TL gone, many of the combos took a giant punch to the Gentleman Parts. Point is, take a deep breath and step back, it's gonna take some games to sort things out, but I'm hearing people call for not playing Eldar players, banning the new codex, and refusing to ever allow WKs or Wraithguard. #over-reaction We haven't even seen the whole codex yet. In addition, I don't see mantle of the laughing god in relics list so no more 2+ cover saves on bikes. The devil is always in the little details and we haven't seen those yet.
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Post by swarm492 on Apr 18, 2015 15:12:56 GMT
I think all the pessimism is DRASTICALLY over the top. Yes, WKs got S:D, but they also went to LOW slot. Yes formations allow up to 12 but who plays 5,000 point games? At that point it's apoc and S:D is the norm. WKs will be hard to tarpit, but you usually won't face more than 1. We haven't seen the rules on the new Wraithguard, maybe they can't take transports at all, if that is the case, then they have to do the slow march of death across the table. As to the scat bikes, yes, it's a lot of shooting, but so were the old ones. Everyone seems to be ignoring that wave serpents got the nerfs we wanted to them. If the shields are 1 use only, then those transports will be fairly easy to pop. With scatter lasers TL gone, many of the combos took a giant punch to the Gentleman Parts. Point is, take a deep breath and step back, it's gonna take some games to sort things out, but I'm hearing people call for not playing Eldar players, banning the new codex, and refusing to ever allow WKs or Wraithguard. #over-reaction We haven't even seen the whole codex yet. In addition, I don't see mantle of the laughing god in relics list so no more 2+ cover saves on bikes. The devil is always in the little details and we haven't seen those yet. I think its more that they get this for 295 pnts than anything, if she was say 400 no one would really give a damn. Also cant GC's simply walk away from combat with non GC or super heavy walker opponents? As a jump GC even if she was bubble wrapped couldn't it just "Jump" out and way.
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Post by biomassbob on Apr 18, 2015 16:40:53 GMT
I think all the pessimism is DRASTICALLY over the top. Yes, WKs got S:D, but they also went to LOW slot. Yes formations allow up to 12 but who plays 5,000 point games? At that point it's apoc and S:D is the norm. WKs will be hard to tarpit, but you usually won't face more than 1. We haven't seen the rules on the new Wraithguard, maybe they can't take transports at all, if that is the case, then they have to do the slow march of death across the table. As to the scat bikes, yes, it's a lot of shooting, but so were the old ones. Everyone seems to be ignoring that wave serpents got the nerfs we wanted to them. If the shields are 1 use only, then those transports will be fairly easy to pop. With scatter lasers TL gone, many of the combos took a giant punch to the Gentleman Parts. Point is, take a deep breath and step back, it's gonna take some games to sort things out, but I'm hearing people call for not playing Eldar players, banning the new codex, and refusing to ever allow WKs or Wraithguard. #over-reaction We haven't even seen the whole codex yet. In addition, I don't see mantle of the laughing god in relics list so no more 2+ cover saves on bikes. The devil is always in the little details and we haven't seen those yet. you are right of course. People should wait and see what actually was changed and how it actually works in the game now rather than panicking - calling for banning the book or eldar players or whatever is over-the-top. Talking about potential changes and if correct what those changes would effect in the game/nids is a normal thing to do (and being bitter about some rumours) - you just hope people keep things in perspective when things are rumours or it is early days and people don't know the full rules or the effect a number of changes may have since it hasn't been played or analyzed fully.
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Post by swarmy on Apr 18, 2015 17:10:42 GMT
Ah, LoW barbie knights. They were already hard to kill and it just got a little stupider...but only 1 per (sane) game is some solace? Though I already typically avoid playing eldar players unless forced to do so by a tournament. It's always the same smug player sitting behind a wall of wave serpents + barbie knights professing how they don't want to be known as "that player" and the skill required to play their army... All this eldar news makes me glad I only have time for kill team games lately!
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Post by vombatti on Apr 18, 2015 18:53:16 GMT
Ah, LoW barbie knights. They were already hard to kill and it just got a little stupider...but only 1 per (sane) game is some solace? Though I already typically avoid playing eldar players unless forced to do so by a tournament. It's always the same smug player sitting behind a wall of wave serpents + barbie knights professing how they don't want to be known as "that player" and the skill required to play their army... All this eldar news makes me glad I only have time for kill team games lately! They can take up to 12 wraithknights using their decurion detachment
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Post by mattblowers on Apr 18, 2015 20:42:21 GMT
Ah, LoW barbie knights. They were already hard to kill and it just got a little stupider...but only 1 per (sane) game is some solace? Though I already typically avoid playing eldar players unless forced to do so by a tournament. It's always the same smug player sitting behind a wall of wave serpents + barbie knights professing how they don't want to be known as "that player" and the skill required to play their army... All this eldar news makes me glad I only have time for kill team games lately! They can take up to 12 wraithknights using their decurion detachment They can but they won't. Same as ork players rarely, if ever, field the stompa. Relax, everything will be fine.
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Post by gigasnail on Apr 18, 2015 20:43:43 GMT
We have seen the changes, the book is out on warseer and has been for 2 days now. The internet hate machine is on-track with this one.
No you likely won't see 12 WK, but if the formation is allowed in your area you'll definitely be seeing 2-3 for sure.
Stomps are nasty, but as noted gaming your placement can help reduce them somewhat. Still, expect to loose a ton of gribblies every round and don't plan for holding a WK for more than 3-4 rounds (i.e. 2 turns) at most instead of tarpit and forget.
It's not one thing that's over the top, it's all the things together. I'm not interested in crying about the release, I'm interested in killing it on the table.
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Post by Kwodd on Apr 18, 2015 21:23:38 GMT
Remember these WKs will be taking their 4+ cover for most of the AP we throw at them. I think hormagaunts and/ or gargoyles are the answer combined with flyrant 6s.
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Post by Kwodd on Apr 18, 2015 21:24:49 GMT
Do we know if it stayed T8?
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Post by gigasnail on Apr 18, 2015 21:25:51 GMT
Do we know if it stayed T8? It went up 30 points and got GMC was only change.
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Post by gigasnail on Apr 18, 2015 21:28:33 GMT
I think all the pessimism is DRASTICALLY over the top. Yes, WKs got S:D, but they also went to LOW slot. Yes formations allow up to 12 but who plays 5,000 point games? At that point it's apoc and S:D is the norm. WKs will be hard to tarpit, but you usually won't face more than 1. We haven't seen the rules on the new Wraithguard, maybe they can't take transports at all, if that is the case, then they have to do the slow march of death across the table. As to the scat bikes, yes, it's a lot of shooting, but so were the old ones. Everyone seems to be ignoring that wave serpents got the nerfs we wanted to them. If the shields are 1 use only, then those transports will be fairly easy to pop. With scatter lasers TL gone, many of the combos took a giant punch to the Gentleman Parts. Point is, take a deep breath and step back, it's gonna take some games to sort things out, but I'm hearing people call for not playing Eldar players, banning the new codex, and refusing to ever allow WKs or Wraithguard. #over-reaction We haven't even seen the whole codex yet. In addition, I don't see mantle of the laughing god in relics list so no more 2+ cover saves on bikes. The devil is always in the little details and we haven't seen those yet. I think its more that they get this for 295 pnts than anything, if she was say 400 no one would really give a damn. Also cant GC's simply walk away from combat with non GC or super heavy walker opponents? As a jump GC even if she was bubble wrapped couldn't it just "Jump" out and way. You can lock GMC/super heavy walkers in combat just fine, that rule has been gone a years now.
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Post by gigasnail on Apr 18, 2015 21:31:56 GMT
Remember these WKs will be taking their 4+ cover for most of the AP we throw at them. I think hormagaunts and/ or gargoyles are the answer combined with flyrant 6s. I agree, we're still stuck with tarpit, it just doesn't work as well. Super shrike assassin squad can maybe do something, but it'll wound on 6's now instead of 4's for poison so i guess you could hope to get lucky? Have to look at the math on it.
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Post by Kwodd on Apr 18, 2015 21:48:35 GMT
Roll handfulls of dice and hope for 6s. Apart from the Heirodule, Hive Guard and Exocrine.
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