Issues with Venomthropes

[killercroc]

So I've noticed something in my gaming group with the other players that they bring up constantly regarding Venomthropes. And that's that they are annoying and broken. Almost everyone I play against complains when i take a brood of venoms and cry foul and cheese every single time they see them, does anyone else have this problem?

The thing is quite frankly with how shooting and combat works now compared to earlier additions they're almost always needed. i have found that having a cover save is the only way to keep my creatures alive, but for some reason when I get a save (5+ in the open, 3+ if behind another unit, and 2+ in a ruin) it's incredibly unfair but my opponents can have 3+, 2+, and invulnerables on their units and it's fine for them.


I've tried explaining it multiple times that it's the only way tyranids are playable now since all other armies basic gun goes through little critters armor, and there is so much anti-tank on the board having a toughness six, four wound monster isn't a big deal, and most armies have plenty of ignores cover shots (Pretty much everyone is a marine player) so it's not like the venomthropes are unbeatable, just like everything else in this game it's all about counters and shooting the correct gun at the correct unit.

It's quite frankly the same as tyranids have always been, units boosting other units with abilities which is exactly how the codex is meant to work.

so how many other people have to put up with this? And how do you usually deal with it?

[doomreaper9]

Your best argument is the fact their armies have invulnerable saves. Not only that some of their warlords and special characters have eternal warrior. So if they believe that the venomthropes are broken they are definitely wrong. Almost nothing in our army is capable of handling a full squad of terminators with storm shieids and Thunder hammers. Which is completely broken.
They would hate to play against me. I would take my bio titan with 20 angry genestealers riding him, and they want to say the venomthropes are broken.

[gigasnail]

Your best argument is that they don't understand target priority.

[WestRider]

I can see people complaining about Malanthropes, maybe, but if they can't kill the Venomthropes, they need to seriously re-evaluate how they're building their own Armies and playing the Game.

[Jabberwocky]

Every army has access to a psyker with Telepathy either natively or as an ally. They can all get a shrouded bubble as well as invisibility if they like.

They also have access to Perfect Timing, making a mockery of thropes.

[doomreaper9]

Yeah they have a lot of access to things that we don't. If we only had access to bio mancy and telepathy. Oh god wouldn't that be heresy!

[1swarmlord]

replace your venomthropes with malanthropes,, like Giga said "target priority" is what your opponents need to learn.

[rpricew]

The definition of a Venomthrope in my area is "First Blood"

[GuardDog78]

^^^ this

If they can't figure out to target your venoms early...they have a really poor grasp of target priority! Mine usually make it to round two...at which point either their shrouding or being bullet magnets has saved the rest of my army a lot of grief.

[rogueaccount]

Mar 30, 2015 4:18:41 GMT doomreaper9 said:

Your best argument is the fact their armies have invulnerable saves. Not only that some of their warlords and special characters have eternal warrior. So if they believe that the venomthropes are broken they are definitely wrong. Almost nothing in our army is capable of handling a full squad of terminators with storm shieids and Thunder hammers. Which is completely broken.
They would hate to play against me. I would take my bio titan with 20 angry genestealers riding him, and they want to say the venomthropes are broken.

I've found a couple squads of devourer-gants goes a long way in dealing with squads of terminators.  if using only 20, 60 shots, 30 hits, 15 wounds, 2.5 failed saves for 160 pts.  2 squads should do a chunk of damage to a single squad of terms.  add exocrine fire to taste.


But in answer to the OP.  Yes, they need to find a way to deal with your thropes.  Its really not that hard to kill of T4 multiwound models.  You can always offer to switch armies so they can understand your point of view better.  If they refuse, they just want something to complain about and arent interested in becoming better players.

Ultimately for me, playing tyranids is about giving your opponent as many bad choices as possible.  If they have to chose between bad option A, and slightly less bad (but still bad) option B, then i'm happy.  Venomthropes/malanthropes are a unit that does that.  Do I kill the guys closing into their threat range, or the guys that are buffing them and helping them get there...2 bad choices.

[Anggul]

Sounds like butthurt refusal to learn to play the game. Venomthropes are good, but certainly not broken.

[nameless]

It's so unbelievable that it's hard to build a counter point. Just say that you'll stop using them if they stop using missile launchers, or invulnerable saves, or tanks, or, or or...

Maybe they'll have to start taking some things that ignore cover. Serpent shields make them cry, same with perfect timing.

They also have better options like shrouding and invisibility.

Out of spite, I'd build a Malanthrope. (well, also because they are better but still not cheese)

[rogueaccount]

If one of my friends has difficulty overcoming certain elements of my list, we'll often sit down after the game and discuss the options they have available to them and work out a new build that will account for what things in my list (and other people's lists) can do.

By talking out what their plan is with their list and what they'll need to include to counter relatively common things like cover saves and shrouded units, you'll help them to be a better player, which will also up your game as you'll have to build and play better to compensate for the changes they make.

I'd start by talking to them about maybe including some ignores cover options.

And if you arent already using it, drop in some terrain that completely blocks line of sight. If they're complaining about having the opportunity to force you to make cover saves, LOS blocking terrain will really vex them as it takes that opportunity away.

[seanster3000]

The short answer is that they have completely lost touch with reality if they are complaining about Venomthropes and Malanthopes! I will never understand this argument and I've even had people in my gaming group complain about all our T6, W6, 3+ MCs! Another asinine argument! So why are we not allowed to have anything good let alone mediocre?

[Anggul]

I think if our codex was already good then Malanthropes would be a bit much, but as it's so poor it kind of needs stuff like that to help it work.