Post by shadowfinder on Jan 25, 2015 19:02:48 GMT
[/quote]Your first point is very much dependant on swarm composition. If there are broods relying on synapse from Shrikes, then sure, but I'd argue that's a very poor position to be in. We should never rely on 5+ armour to keep our synapse web going.
How do you deal with targets in cover? Against many, the combination of Overwatch and attacking at I1 with only T4/5+ will be their ruin. If you don't assault, they may not survive the enemy's turn.[/quote]
Shrikes are great units in their own. I just see even new players target them before other stuff on the ground because they are fast, can have stuff on them like bone swords with poison and the control things around them. People use them as assignation squads of 3 to 4 models. If I know they are there for that I would target them first turn or second turn before they have a chance to get close to their target.
I run unit of 6 raveners and I have no problem charging most units in cover. Most things you charge in cover are not great at combat. The will be hitting you on 4 needing 4 or 5s to wound. you then have a 5+ save( hopefully a 5+ FNP as well). I don't know what you are fighting that can do 18+ wounds in over watch and in close combat. the main target of raveners is not dedicated close combat units but troop and back field support units like tanks. Their speed makes them a great threat when combined with tyrants and other back field disruption units.
The OP was talking about a unit of 9 with the red terror added to it so 10 models with 27 wounds. I can only think of two units I wouldn't want to charge with a unit that big in cover. Over watch should do like 2 wounds from a tac squad. then close combat you lose maybe two models if your unlucky. The rest of the unit kills the tac squad. Charging a tau broadside unit would hurt more from over watch but if you make it in to combat with them with just 2 models they will more then like fold.
Raveners and shrikes are both in my mind a decent unit. I don't conceder one unit better then the other. Because of my meta shrikes get targeted first so I have seen a lower return on there use. Raveners people will focus down as well after the have experienced them a time or two, but they will have a harder time picking between that and the tfex or Dakkafex next to it imo.
How do you deal with targets in cover? Against many, the combination of Overwatch and attacking at I1 with only T4/5+ will be their ruin. If you don't assault, they may not survive the enemy's turn.[/quote]
Shrikes are great units in their own. I just see even new players target them before other stuff on the ground because they are fast, can have stuff on them like bone swords with poison and the control things around them. People use them as assignation squads of 3 to 4 models. If I know they are there for that I would target them first turn or second turn before they have a chance to get close to their target.
I run unit of 6 raveners and I have no problem charging most units in cover. Most things you charge in cover are not great at combat. The will be hitting you on 4 needing 4 or 5s to wound. you then have a 5+ save( hopefully a 5+ FNP as well). I don't know what you are fighting that can do 18+ wounds in over watch and in close combat. the main target of raveners is not dedicated close combat units but troop and back field support units like tanks. Their speed makes them a great threat when combined with tyrants and other back field disruption units.
The OP was talking about a unit of 9 with the red terror added to it so 10 models with 27 wounds. I can only think of two units I wouldn't want to charge with a unit that big in cover. Over watch should do like 2 wounds from a tac squad. then close combat you lose maybe two models if your unlucky. The rest of the unit kills the tac squad. Charging a tau broadside unit would hurt more from over watch but if you make it in to combat with them with just 2 models they will more then like fold.
Raveners and shrikes are both in my mind a decent unit. I don't conceder one unit better then the other. Because of my meta shrikes get targeted first so I have seen a lower return on there use. Raveners people will focus down as well after the have experienced them a time or two, but they will have a harder time picking between that and the tfex or Dakkafex next to it imo.