flyrants and cover saves

[gigasnail]

Read the rules for template weapons. You put the template in contact with the model's base for starters.

The rules are really simplified abstractions. Trying to tie any more depth to them doesn't go very far.

[casteel]

Jan 16, 2015 8:44:20 GMT saxif said:

Jan 15, 2015 20:51:22 GMT casteel said:

After reading all of this all I can add is this:

If my opponent wants to "Rules Lawyer" his way through a cover save. (A Monstrous Creature behind a line of Gants or a FMC in a ruins) then I'll let him have the roll, finish the game and never play him again. (Most players in my community are cool) I play this game to have fun and am not going to waste time arguing over sentence structure. It's crazy. Use your imagination instead of crazily trying to decipher if 25% of a model is actually covered etc. Roll dice, remove models from the table and if you lose, reset the game and play again.

Just my thought but have fun guys!

Do you play tyranids or something else?

i can totally see ppl wanting to play by the actual rules rather than changing them, especially as the changes you propose hurt tyranids more than any other army.  Also given that tyranids seem to have some of the least resilient troops (all categories) and cover saves is our primary defence as we don't have as great armour, or invulns or FNP as many other armies, it isn't surprising that people feel they need to rely on those cover saves to be competitive AND have fun themselves.  



Trust me it is less fun taking of chunks or your army without saves when the rule book states you get saves.

I play Tyranids. I interpret the rule to say if the monster is partially in the ruins or covered than you should get the cover save. If someone wants a "win" so badly that they are going to fight and argue about it, then I don't need to play that person.

[gigasnail]

Again, there isn't any interpretation needed for a MC with its base in cover...

[bolk]

Jan 15, 2015 20:51:22 GMT casteel said:

After reading all of this all I can add is this:

If my opponent wants to "Rules Lawyer" his way through a cover save. (A Monstrous Creature behind a line of Gants or a FMC in a ruins)

So if you have a group of Tactical Marines trying to shoot at a Carnifex behind a group of Gaunts, he doesn`t get the 5+ cover from intervening models in your opinion?

[saxif]

I can see both arguments, the rules do fairly clearly say cover saves apply to all models which is obviously ridiculous in some circumstances but the rules in black and white state it. Really we choose to play a poorly worded (balanced) system and certain critters should prolly be cheaper and not get a cover save or some other stipulation.

I think allot of people who use this board do so because they don't play in the friend environment and so cover saves are integral.

If it works for you and it is fun do it, some models rule sets break the game much worse than giving something a cover save that is dubious, so it is hardly the end of the hobby to give a flyrant a cover save.

[shiwan8]

Jan 16, 2015 23:50:49 GMT gigasnail said:

Read the rules for template weapons. You put the template in contact with the model's base for starters.

The rules are really simplified abstractions. Trying to tie any more depth to them doesn't go very far.

"You" get hit by a fire-based weapon and thus have a chance to die or get incapacitated due to wounds "you" might end up with. This is not consistent with real life?

[gigasnail]

that's not what i'm talking about.

[saxif]

Suppose I need to actually go read this section on template weapons ...

[rroach]

Jan 17, 2015 20:42:46 GMT shiwan8 said:

Jan 16, 2015 23:50:49 GMT gigasnail said:

Read the rules for template weapons. You put the template in contact with the model's base for starters.

The rules are really simplified abstractions. Trying to tie any more depth to them doesn't go very far.

"You" get hit by a fire-based weapon and thus have a chance to die or get incapacitated due to wounds "you" might end up with. This is not consistent with real life?

I think he means that by placing the template in contact with the base, rather than the weapon, a squad of whomever with template weapons has to be spaced properly to use them to full effect. Real life says the pew-pew comes from the gun, the game says the pew-pew comes from the base.

The game isn't real life. It's a game. It's under no obligation to conform with reality.

[gigasnail]

^this. now, do this with a crone. now, try to use any template weapon on something in a ruin. it's not actually possible.

[casteel]

Jan 17, 2015 14:09:26 GMT bolk said:

Jan 15, 2015 20:51:22 GMT casteel said:

After reading all of this all I can add is this:

If my opponent wants to "Rules Lawyer" his way through a cover save. (A Monstrous Creature behind a line of Gants or a FMC in a ruins)

So if you have a group of Tactical Marines trying to shoot at a Carnifex behind a group of Gaunts, he doesn`t get the 5+ cover from intervening models in your opinion?

He would get a cover save.

[biomega]

Dec 21, 2014 5:29:20 GMT coredump said:

What about intervening models

Intervening models:"If a target is partially obscured from the firer by models from a third unit, it receives a 5+ cover save

Seems pretty clear to me.

[jimmyp]

Intervening models of termagants in front of my carnifex brood with a venomthrope/malanthrope = 3+ cover save lovely stuff lol

[N.I.B.]

Jan 16, 2015 13:41:55 GMT jimmyp said:

Where is woods mentioned mate? Can't find it myself.

Under Terrain Types, Difficult Terrain.

Difficult terrain slows down models wishing to move through it. It includes areas of rubble, woods, ruins, rocky outcrops, boggy ground, low walls, tanglewire, barricades, steep hills, streams and other shallow water, as well as terrain features that combine several of these types. Unless specifically noted otherwise, a model in cover behind difficult terrain has a 5+ cover save.

Determining cover saves
If, when you come to allocate a Wound, the target model's body is at least 25% obscured from the point of view of at least one firer, Wounds allocated to that model recieves a cover save. Unless specifically stated otherwise, all cover provides a 5+ save.

So there you have it. Woods don't give you a cover save, unless you are 25% obscured. Twisted Copse do, however. Will your opponent agree that your scratch built woods are Twisted Copses? Maybe. Maybe not.

[jimmyp]

@n.I.B thanks mate I just found it last night, I got two of the twisted copse woods models last week to add to the terrain I use with friends. Hopefully they agree to it giving the twisted copse rules.