heavy support drop pod

[iyama]

A friend and I are having a debate over the 5 weapons on the hsdp (heavy support drop pod). Its rules do not say that it cannot shoot at the same target 5 times, only that it is capable of split fire. But my friend argues over line of sight rules and firing through itself.
I've also stated that it a living thing and can twist its body in the same way a monstrous creature is allowed to fit through small doors in zone mortalis but dreadnoughts etc can as a mc can shift its body to fit.
I've also been told all 40k is 360 degree fire but how does that effect tank side pod weapons my friend argues.

So what are other people's views on this debate?

[daboarder]

It IS a MC, all weapons have LOS 360 from the creature not the gun and you measure closest from the base. Black and white in the BRB

[metrognome]

thetyranidhive.proboards.com/thread/48060/tyrannocyte-firing-problem

[iyama]

That's great, wanted the make sure I don't use it wrong when I get one, without cheesing

[daboarder]

Nov 15, 2014 9:45:08 GMT iyama said:

That's great, wanted the make sure I don't use it wrong when I get one, without cheesing

To be fair however, some argue that the intention was that they opperated like vehicle weaponry (with a fixed LOS from the gun not the vehicle) but the rules dont support that without making a bunch of arbitrary other rules (like using the vehicle rules to fire a non-vehicle models weapons)

Just be aware, that because any blast weapons are resolved separately, they don't act like multiple blast weapons, roll scatter for each blast individually

[WestRider]

Nov 15, 2014 9:50:15 GMT daboarder said:

Just be aware, that because any blast weapons are resolved separately, they don't act like multiple blast weapons, roll scatter for each blast individually

That's actually true of all regular Blasts. It's only Multiple Barrages that chain together.

[daboarder]

Nov 15, 2014 10:27:09 GMT WestRider said:

Nov 15, 2014 9:50:15 GMT daboarder said:

Just be aware, that because any blast weapons are resolved separately, they don't act like multiple blast weapons, roll scatter for each blast individually

That's actually true of all regular Blasts. It's only Multiple Barrages that chain together.

oops, ok yeah the rule is largely pointless then

[Yautja]

Just be warned that multiple pods, each with 5 blast weapons will really slow your games down.

[jemminids]

Unfortunately, things are a bit more complicated. The rules as written are not clear, and support two interpretations, both of which seem equally strong. Some people on this forum claim that the RAW clearly point in the direction daboarder describes, and that anyone who disagrees is using their subjective view of the rules as intended to override the written rules. Not true.

The problem with the pod's firing rule is that its wording describes the guns firing automatically, as opposed to the model or monstrous creature firing. The weapon is said to fire at the closest target in range and LOS. But it is NOT specified whether this means the LOS and range of the monstrous creature, or the gun. This makes a difference, od course, to who is targeted, and in particular how many enemies are targeted.

Some people are assuming that, because the rule does not specify which range and LOS counts, we should use the MC's range and LOS, because the pod is an MC. But this is only a reasonable guess, not clear RAW, because, as I say, the rule refers to the gun firing automatically, not the MC, and so it's not clear whether the MC firing rules can apply at all. Another point against this interpretation is that it ignores the wording of the almost identical Automated Fire rule for guns on buildings. If you look up that rule you will see how similar they are. You will also see that, unfortunately, Automated Fire is clearer. Because that rule says that guns on buildings fire automatically, and specifies that it is the gun's own LOS that is to be used. The instinctive Fire rule for pods doesnt include the second bit about the gun's LOS. That *doesnt* mean that the RAW clearly count in favour of using the MCs LOS, however. It just means the rule is unclear.

Because the RAW are unclear, you could go either way. In my view, RAI should be the tiebreaker. I think that in this case the rules clarification in White Dwarf and comparison with Automated Fire show that the intention was that range and LOS are from the gun. It's important to see that using RAI to resolve an unclear rule is not the same as ignoring clear RAW in favour of RAI. I'd be equally happy to house rule this or roll off. All I'd object to is anyone saying they clearly have the right reading of the RAW. The fact is it's an incomplete rule.

TL;DR You'll have to sort this out in your group until there's an FAQ. But anyone claiming there's no unclarity in the RAW is displaying unjustified confidence IMO.

[Yautja]

Oh my God, please don't bring that painfully unimportant and boring argument to this thread too!

[Moontyranid]

Here

[daboarder]

Look OP ignore those pictures they aren't part of the rules and White dwarf is notorious for not knowing the rules of the game

You others, Its been stated that some people think thats how the rule works (as silly as it is) stop trying to pass of the WD (please do not swear) as the actual rules.

[gigasnail]

go download the rules from the blacklibrary site. you will not find those two pics in them, because they're not rules.

[Davor]

First off, stop saying Heavy Support Drop Pod. Things can only get worse from there when proper words are not being used since this Pod can be used for HQ, Elites, Troops and FA also. Hell it can even carry Gargantuan Creatures as well. Ok, no it can't but if you want a good debate and have some fun on your friend to freak him out, say that.

Call it a Drop Pod if you must, hell I can't even remember the name but take the Heavy Support out of it. Only more confusion will come out of it.

[daboarder]

actually, the pod is "heavy support" its not linked to a particular unit but it doesn't eat a slot either.

However it means that it gives up a VP in "big guns"
It also means you can decide what goes into it differently each game during deployment