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Post by multigaunt on Sept 15, 2014 19:21:09 GMT
Hi Hive.
I'm new here but i play Tyranids since 2nd edition. After a long absence, i'm returning to tournament environment and need some help.
The tourname only allows 1CAD+1Allied detach, no formations or dataslates and is at 1500 pts., The missions are much alike as the BAO used, with minor twicks.
I'm a thinking to use something like this:
Dakka Tyrant, Elect. grubs Dakka Tyrant, Elect. grubs
Zoan Zoan Venom
Ripper swarmx4 DS Ripper swarmx3 DS Ripper swarmx4 Ripper swarmx4
Crone Crone
T-Fex, 2 templates T-Fex, 2 templates
The other option is substitute 1 T-fex and Crone with 2 Dakkafexs. Can this be a solid list? What changes you advise?
Thanks.
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Post by ptderfel on Sept 16, 2014 2:04:53 GMT
You run a very agressive list that should only leave zoans and rippers to defend your backfield, and you dont need that many flyers. I suggest you swap the second template on tfex for adrenal glands, you need that fleet to get them close. Drop one crone for a dakkafex or 3 biovores. Drop one zoan for extra venom, and i prefer 3 warriors with BS to those 4x ripper units.
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Post by multigaunt on Sept 16, 2014 21:10:31 GMT
Thanks for the reply.
My local meta is majority Marines, Eldar and Imperial Guard. The templates on T-fex are very good against the last ones. Not so good agianst Marines but do the job.
Yesterday i had a game against Daemons and i cannot control the deathstar of Hounds+exalted on jugger. It was to much attacks (some with instant death) for my t-fexs and swarms. That unit with the help of invisibility was a pain in the a.. all game.
I'm thinking of change one of the t-fexs with a mawloc to deal with does "invisible units".
What do you think?
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Post by coredump on Sept 17, 2014 1:47:15 GMT
As for your list.... I like the Crone, I like the Tfex, I don't like both. (And since they both fill the roll of 'mobile heavy flamer'; having 4 is likely more overkill)
Crones are really good against flyers, and pretty good against Xenos infantry (especially in cover); but beyond that, runs out of good targets. Unless your meta is very flyer heavy, I don't think you need two crones, especially not with Tfexes around.
As you said, Tfex does a nice job on xenos troops, but has some troubles otherwise, I think you will easily run out of good targets with 2 Tfexes.
I don't have a lot of experience with rippers.... but I believe there isn't much difference between 3 bases or 4 bases in a brood. If they want you dead, killing 4 is about the same as three. I would stick with broods of 3 bases, and likely give them all DS.
If you can proxy (or have time to order one) I would consider a malanthrope, in rough terms, it is a zoan and venom put together, but cheaper and better. (except no psy powers) I really don't like zoans, I would rather take a unit of warriors or Shrikes in stead of 2 zoans. (or the above malanthrope)
Heh, just read your last sentences... I would drop a crone and Tfex for 2 devilfexes (probably in two separate broods)
Another option... drop crone for devilfex Drop the zoans for warriors Drop the Tfex for Exocrine Drop some rippers and whatever to get 3 biovores. The Living Artillery Node is really helpful. (Short version: Warr+biovore+Exo get pinnning and TL to all blasts) But that is a pretty big change to your list.
Check with the TO, according to the BRB you may not ally nids with Nids; but this *was* allowed at the BAO (And NoVa, and LVO, and...) So that might be legal. That opens up the chance to grab a third flyrant. (Not positive its a great idea at 1500... but probably.)
As for the Dogs... I don't have my demon codex handy, so I (or someone) needs to factcheck me. I assume it has to be a herald of Khorne, how is it getting ID attacks? Does it have the banner to give Rage? (so dogs get 4 attacks on charge) Is he using the grimiore on the dogs? How many Dogs in the unit?
Dogs are a pain, but aside from the charge, they are S4. A friend of mine plays 20 dogs, the trick is to assault the dogs first (deny furious charge, and Rage), if you assault with a Tfex, it will tie up the dogs for most of the game. Even 20 dogs: 40 attacks, 27hits, 4 wounds, 1.33 unsaved. If you can get catalyst on the Tfex, even better. If he has a reliable ID weapon, this may change things....
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Post by tag8833 on Sept 17, 2014 15:02:02 GMT
I agree with everything Coredump said. Too many heavy flamers not enough dakka. I would probably keep two sources of synapse beyond the flyrant even if you go living artillery.
I also highly recommend swapping 1 Ripper swarm (at least) for gants to give you a screen.
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Post by nameless on Sept 17, 2014 17:06:56 GMT
The LAN would be great, but she said that formations are not allowed.
I'm going to assume that you don't have three flying hive tyrants you wish to use, so I won't make that suggestion.
The Herald with the dogs is a really good combination. My last 1500 point game, it took out the following: Tyrannofex, Hive Tyrant, Dima, group of warriors and Malanthrope. It was insane.
You give him a Juggernaut, 2 lesser rewards and Wrath Locus. The thing then is S6, AP2, 6A, rerolling hits with instant death on a wound roll of 6. Real nasty.
I would defintely take out 1 TFex and 1 Crone for 2 Carnifex with TLdevs. You probably don't need all those extra troops either. That give you 159 points to play around with. That could be another Carnifex, or Crone or even a Mawloc.
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Post by multigaunt on Sept 17, 2014 23:09:22 GMT
Thanks ppl for all the replys.
In this tournament we can oly use 1cad+allied detach, no formations, and nids cannot ally with themselfes. No Forge world rules, so no Melanthrope. As the missions have the maelstrom objectives i'm trying to have some numbers of troops to go take those objectivs. I really like Dakkafexs, but t-fex seems more resistence, with 2+ save. I forgot to say that some of the Eldar, SM players are heavy mec, so the haywire template are very good against it.
The unit of hounds was 15 strong plus the herald in jug with the combo nameless sad.
Today i played against Necrons with lots of ghost arks, annihilation barges and wraiths. It was a good game, very intense and it ended with a draw. I used 2 devillfexs insted of a t-frx and a crone, and i missed the haywires from missiles and electic grubs. The mvp was the swarms. They take all the maelstrom objectives put some pressure on necron player (he have a lot of rolls to control the objectives). I'm really undecided between the dakkas and the t-fex and crone.
With more info around the tournamente i know the main army is SM, following IG and Tau. Seems like its possible to appear some c'tan lord of war (yes we can use lords of war), and some daemons (the same player with big unit of hounds).
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Post by coredump on Sept 18, 2014 3:51:39 GMT
The LAN would be great, but she said that formations are not allowed. RIF Reading Is Fundemental... How are you getting to 6A? I get 3 base, plus 1 Jugger, and +1 if it gets the charge. And at least the reroll hits is only the first round. That build seems designed for the dogs to support the herald, my friend plays it where the herald supports the dogs Herald, Jugger, Locus of Fury, Grimoire of true names. Now the Dogs get 4 S5 attacks each on the charge, and usually a 3++ invuln save to go with it. It really eats through lots of stuff *really* fast, but I should be able to hold it up with a Tfex. Would have to rethink that if the herald gets ID and AP2. OTOH, they die a lot easier at 5++ than 3++....
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Post by coredump on Sept 18, 2014 4:14:04 GMT
As the missions have the maelstrom objectives i'm trying to have some numbers of troops to go take those objectivs. Remember, almost any unit can score the objective, you don't need troops for that. Why would anyone ever let their wave serpents, ghost arks, ABarges, and most transports... get anywhere near a Tfex, especially if they know you have a haywire template. If you can get a Tfex close enough to Haywire a vehicle, thats close enough for a Fex to charge it... and that will do a *lot* more damage. And do you really want you 185pt model being used to remove 1 HP from a vehicle a turn? Devilfex has longer range, will do more damage to a wave serpent (or any AV12), and will wreck most SM transports. A crone is only BS3, with 4 missiles, so you are talking 2 hits, and a 30% chance that one of those fails to damage anything. They just are not very good against ground vehicles. Yes a Tfex is more resilient, but to what end, if you don't have the tools to threaten and kill the enemy, being resilient isn't all that helpful. Hmmm.... I think I would try and shoot the heck out of those dogs early on... devilfex does 5 wounds, a flyrant does 6. If you throw 2 of each into the dogs, that should kill 11 of the 15 dogs. (Tfex/Crone will get about half the wounds as hits you get. flame 6 models, get 3.33 wounds.) If you get something into base with the herald, it needs to attack that. So if you charge the dogs with 2 fexes, and get rippers into base with the herald... it means the fexes are safe from the ID Axe. Could they have done just as well with broods of 3? Couldn't you have used another unit?
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Post by nameless on Sept 18, 2014 4:52:08 GMT
The LAN would be great, but she said that formations are not allowed. RIF Reading Is Fundemental... How are you getting to 6A? I get 3 base, plus 1 Jugger, and +1 if it gets the charge. And at least the reroll hits is only the first round. That build seems designed for the dogs to support the herald, my friend plays it where the herald supports the dogs Herald, Jugger, Locus of Fury, Grimoire of true names. Now the Dogs get 4 S5 attacks each on the charge, and usually a 3++ invuln save to go with it. It really eats through lots of stuff *really* fast, but I should be able to hold it up with a Tfex. Would have to rethink that if the herald gets ID and AP2. OTOH, they die a lot easier at 5++ than 3++.... The build takes two weapons as the aether blade is also a specialist weapon. Gives it 6 on the charge. I've only seen it once and it was a one man wrecking crew
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Post by coredump on Sept 18, 2014 8:30:17 GMT
The build takes two weapons as the aether blade is also a specialist weapon. Gives it 6 on the charge. I've only seen it once and it was a one man wrecking crew Not legal. You can only swap once for the 0 result. OTOH, same result can be had by taking a lessor and greater reward and swapping both of them for the 0 result. Does seem like a killing machine... Still only T4 (in unit) and 6+ save. I think my solution would be to use biovores to snipe him, and try to make him the closest model when the flyrants are shooting. This is neither easy nor guaranteed to work, but a couple of unlucky 1's could really ruin his day.
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Post by mattblowers on Sept 18, 2014 15:35:21 GMT
The Living Artillery Node is really helpful. (Short version: Warr+biovore+Exo get pinnning and TL to all blasts) But that is a pretty big change to your list. I know he can't take formations, but for sake of clarity: I thought that LAN formation only allows reroll of the scatter dice, not TL. Not always a big difference, but really matters when you roll box cars and scatter (like I did recently), rerolling all the dice is much better than just the scatter.
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Post by coredump on Sept 18, 2014 17:26:32 GMT
Yeah, you're right. I was taking a short cut, and got sloppy. Good catch.
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Post by nameless on Sept 18, 2014 18:00:48 GMT
I didn't realize that you couldn't do it twice. Maybe that's what he did with a greater reward.
As to "re-roll the scatter dice", you get to re-roll everything, not just the singular scatter die. Is there any instance where you are specifically told to only re-roll the scatter? I don't think there is. Re-roll scatter dice has always meant to pick up everything.
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Post by gigasnail on Sept 18, 2014 20:35:56 GMT
No, scatter die/dice (Britt english, they're interchangeable) is just the directional die. It's defined in the brb in the first chapter or so.
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