blackrainbow: My repeat opponent was a Necron player, Andy. His original list was Veil-heavy- 2 veilTeks plus Obyron. Used that for a turn 5 objective grab to win game 6. NOVA's a great time - I highly suggest it. And signing up for it is great motivation to knock out that army. I have all of two 1850+ painted armies, both of which I painted up for NOVA.
gigasnail: I was on Episode 63:
www.forgethenarrative.com/2014/08/ftn-episode-63-grey-knights-and-space.htmlI mostly chimed in on a couple rules debates - the main topic was Grey Knights, which are definitely the army I know the least about.
Yautja: The goal isn't totally to spend points. Ymgarl might be pretty hilarious for a fun game though.
With dropping the Warriors and Hive Commander for Rippers and Stealers, I'm left with 20 points, 35 if I drop OA as well. That would be enough for a 6th Ravener (I will concede the Shrikes are better, though not having Move Through Cover is a concern since they have to hug cover, and not coming with Fleet is also a minus for getting into assault).
Alternatively to the Ravener/Shrikes, in a double CAD format I could go with 4x3 rippers and get a third dakkaflyrant. Short of double CAD though, think my list is looking like:
2xFlyrant: 2xTL Devourers, Electroshock Grubs
Flyrant: Reaper, Adrenal
Malanthrope
4x3 Rippers: Deep Strike
5 Genestealers
2xCrone
5 Raveners: 3 Rending Claws, 2 double ScyTal
2 Carnifex: Crushing Claws, Adrenal Glands
Ok, here we go, as promised. I should probably just make a post in the tactics section that says "Here's some ideas for CC 'Nids!"
Anyway, I'm going to start with a disclaimer; I don't use TLD or Flyers of any kind. All of my experience / advice comes with that sort of playstyle, so keep that in mind.
Assault armies are a lot harder to pull off since 6th Edition, but are not something you will just lose with either, if you're a good player. Melee lists require a lot of finese, and are very unforgiving. I've dropped from top table to 5th in tournaments because I've made 1 bad decision with who a carnifex charges. CC lists require a lot of synergy / support to work as well. Generally you need a CC unit that can handle itself, as well as a "delivery system." Most commonly this is intervening models (hormagaunts are great for this. They are fast, cheap, can keep up with our fast CC units, and are OS. Obviously Gargoyles are great for this as well).
1) Melyrants (Wings, AG,OA, LWBS) are 250 points, and is the cheapest I care to run them. I also don't like to go higher than this, as, jesus, that's 500 points on 2 models. If a Melyrant is going to be your warlord, I like to go with personal traits to try and get FNP.
-Adrenal Glands are for Fleet. Fleet is for getting into assaults. Do not skimp on this or you will regret it. I'll include a nifty chart as to why under this.
-Old Adversary is there instead of Toxic Sacs. Most of your ideal targets you're wounding on a 2 anyway, and you get to reroll those (swearing) 1s you get when you *only* have 6 attacks on the charge.
-Lashwhip/Bonesword is for LOL I8 and potential ID on your 6 attack die. Don't forget you determine which your opponent takes first, which can be important when he's going to burn wounds on LoS rolls.
-YOU ARE A JUMP MONSTEROUS CREATURE, NOT A FLYING MONSTEROUS CREATURE. Abuse jink. You will be jinking a lot, because you will be shot at a lot. Ever play against a seerstar, or a shadowfield? Annoying, isn't it? Imagine it on a T6 frame. People will try to kill you with volume of fire. I usually declare at the beginning of the game "If you shoot at my Tyrant, assuming he's jinking. I want to jink every time you shoot at him, just know that in case I forget to declare it." This is also why I don't bother with ESG on him.
-You need a Venomthrope/Malanthrope. He's there for 2+ jink (duh). I like to have a unit of hormagaunts to wrap up the venomthrope, so he has a 3+ cover as well.
Melyrants are best suited against any infantry. This includes, but is not limited too, non-ID wielding, non-invuln saving Elites, HQs (Invulns are ok here, so long as they're not too crazy and it's a lone HQ), Ripetides, Dreadknights, any troops (great unit to smash into, then kill on opponents turn, then assault again), Dev squad equivalents, transports, fast attack (warp spiders, chaos spawn, marine bikers), and the occasional Leman Russ. Not bad against Wraightknights either, but also not ideal.
You'll want to deploy this thing as far up as possible, with a Malanthrope(ideally) as close as possible, but horms/terms/whatevs between the Shroudthrope and the enemy if they have first turn. Your Melyrant moves up 12", your shroudthrope moves up 6", then has 6" shroud, so you're still in jink. In your shooting phase, utilize the world of premeasuring by running your shroudthrope first, then measure your shroud and run your Melyrant within your bubble. Be wary of what can counter charge you. Turn 2 charges are super easy to get with these things. Being charged isn't the worst thing in the world, just make sure it's something you're not too scared of. For example; Being charged by Wraithknight? Not that scary, even if your opponent thinks it is.
Being charged by a 50 strong IG blob squad with a priest? An IK? Hammernators? Remember; getting into the combat YOU want to be in is your goal. If you don't do that, it is your failure, not your opponents success.
Bonus level; Get a Malanthrope in the initial combat with the Melyrant. Prey Adaptation is GUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUD.
Danger zone; Hitting a soft target to get an early charge can be a trap. A free 7 inch movement to kill a transport can be tempting. So can killing a group of Centurions. Just be aware of what you'll have to deal with the following turn. Will those Hammernators countercharge you? Will you be eating a full unit of missileside fire? Did your charge take you out of shrouded range? If you answered yes to any of these questions, you're in the danger zone. Avoid the danger zone. 4+ jink / 3+ armor will not save you from volume of fire, even with FNP.
OH NOES! I'M IN THE DANGER ZONE! WUT DO?
Do you bring hormagaunts to wrap up your shroudthrope? You did? /phew! Use these to either A) Bounding leap your way between potentional countercharge units or B) Assault those Missilesides/Blobsquad/ whatever. Tie those dangerous units down for your opponents turn, and get your Melyrant back into combat, or, back into your shrouded bubble.
Don't forget you can always jump into swoop mode and fly off the table if you're about to die. Especially useful if it's your warlord.
2) Carnifexen
Either A) Crushing Claws + AG, or Stonecrushers. Always take 2. Whether 2 units of 1 or 1 unit of 2 is up to you and your available heavy slots. This is your anti-AV14 unit. The end. Can do well against other units in H2H as well (other MCs, multi-wound models, TEQ). Landraiders/Monolithes are your main target. I like the CC/AG fex better (You need fleet SO BAD) than the Stonecrusher....but they can be D-weaponed by IK before they strike. Stonecrushers have that S10, AP2, Armorbane HoW that can easily LOLSPLAT IK at the I10 step. Just make sure YOU'RE charging IT.
3) Shrikes. Oh god shrikes.
I've played around with these a lot. You're taking Flesh Hooks, Adrenal glands (FLEEEET), and Toxic sacs. Accept that. Don't try to skimp on points.
A delivery system (Shrouding, horms) are usually needed for these guys, at least if playing them very aggresively. 3+ cover save? Yes please. Someone else to eat rapid fire overwatch (or flamer overwatch)? Double yes please. The unit is just expensive and I feel scared if they don't have their support units. That being said.....I don't remember the last time they really got shot at. People are usually too busy shooting Melyrants, Malanthropes, or Carnifexen to pay any attention to these guys. I used to use them extremely aggressively, but since I've been using Melyrants I've toned down my number of squads (used to run 3, now I usually run just 1....sometimes 2) and used them as a midfield reactionary force. Can also plug emergency holes in Synapse, though that rarely happens as I typically run 2 Melyrants and 2 Malanthropes. There are two types of units I like to run
1) 5x Rending Claw / Scything Talons. These are anti-TEQ. They kill more terminators on the charge (non-storm shield terms) for 230 points than a Melyrant does for 250 (4.47 terms vs 2.89).
2) 3x Lashwhip / Bonesword. LOL. These kill Wraithknights or deathstars. Last tournament they killed Ahriman(sp?) embedded in a unit of Chosen on the charge. That same day they killed a Seerstar on the charge with wounds left over. They also shine against Chaos Spawn, Nobs, or really anything with a 3+ save.
This is really the core of CC nids...or at least as far as my experience goes. You need shrouding, ideally from Malanthropes. You need a fast bubble wrap (horms or gargoyles). Other support is optional based on your flavor. I like a unit of 2 biovores and a unit of 3 Hive Guard for support. I tend to straight up ignore flyers, unless they go into hover mode. Positioning your army so they don't get more than a turn or 2 of shooting against you isn't that hard, provided they don't have vector dancer. If a skyfire nexus pops up my hive guard book it for that thing. Worst case scenario flyer shoot at you a lot and you rely on your cover saves anyway.
Hope this helps. If anyone has other experiences (especially if it's games played, not just theorycrafting) I'd love to hear it. Theorycrafting is welcome too, of course. I'm particularly curious about the Dimachareon(sp?) and Haruspex (Theorycraft says booooooo, but I don't know anyone with actual experience either), and using genestealers to effect (I've had some success with Manufactorum Genestealers myself, but not nearly as much as what's above).
Oh, and here's why you take fleet on anything CC based;
| Charge Range | Base Charge %
| With Fleet!
| Difference | How much better?
|
| 4" | 91.7 | 99.3
| 7.6
| 108%
|
| 5" | 83.3 | 97.2 | 13.9 | 117%
|
| 6" | 72.2 | 92.3 | 20.1 | 128%
|
| 7" | 58.3
| 82.6 | 24.3 | 142%
|
| 8" | 41.7 | 66 | 24.3 | 158%
|
| 9" | 27.8 | 47.5 | 19.7 | 171%
|
| 10" | 16.7 | 30.6 | 13.9 | 183%
|
| 11" | 8.3 | 16 | 7.7 | 193% |
| 12" | 2.8 | 5.5 | 2.7 | 196% |
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I didn't include 2" charges (autowin unless you don't have MTC) or 3" charges because the number don't start mattering until 4" charges. If you don't have fleet built in, and you have the option to buy AG, buy AG. It never costs more than 15 points, and it's worth 15 points. I guess you get furious charge too or whatever, but who cares.
