Jink and Vector Strike

[mattblowers]

I know we've talked about the new VS from many angles. Here's a question though. Since VS is considered a shooting attack and since it does not use a BS, rules would suggest that you can't VS if you jink. I haven't seen this in the forums and I can't find it in a forum search. What sayst the hive?

[coredump]

There is nothing in the VS rules labeling it a shooting attack. You do it in place of a shooting attack, but that is not the same thing.

Likewise, a Run is also not a shooting attack. (Run is also done in place of a shooting attack)

[Mauler]

Core 4tw. VS isn't a shooting attack, nor does it have to roll to hit so Jink forcing snap shots doesn't apply.

[Deleted]

Yeah, I only recently(around the time 7E dropped) discovered what core said.

While intuition makes you think it is subject to snap fire because it takes place of a shooting attack, it isn't one nor does it resolve as one(it resolves more similarly to close combat, and we have precedence of rules like with witchfire powers and the like that specifically say they resolve like a shooting attack).

[mattblowers]

It was during a late night game, and, well, you know. I haven't looked the rule up since, but my opponent read out loud that it was a shooting attack, or at least that was his interpretation. It was my flyrant so I was happy to oblige him with 12 TL S6 shots instead, still did the job. For sake of argument, wouldn't the "counts as a having fired a weapon" imply that it counts like firing a weapon and it certainly doesn't need a BS. How can I make the argument without being "that guy"?

[seanster3000]

It's hard because once "that guy" has made up his mind there really is no changing it (just like politics). If he would read the rule for Vector Strike he would find that:

A - It's done AT THE END of the Movement Phase (it's not even done in the Shooting Phase).
B - The rule specifically states the it COUNTS (not that it actually is) as if it has fired one weapon in the Shooting Phase.

You Jink in your enemies Shooting Phase after he selects your Flying Hive Tyrant but before ANY rolls to Hit are made. This forces the Snap Shots for your turn's Shooting. There is absolutely no rule saying that you can't instead subsequently Vector Strike during your turn. To me this is clear, cut, and dry. Your opponent is reading too much into the rules and subconsciously doesn't like the result. Most of the rule discrepancies are because passion gets in the way of analytical judgment thus skewing the interpretation of the rules.

[mattblowers]

Good point, jink forces snapshots in the next shooting phase, not the next movement phase. So... even if it is a shooting attack it happens in a different phase and wouldn't apply. Thanks for the help.

[coredump]

"A model that made a Vector Strike in its Movement phase counts as having already fired one weapon in its following Shooting phase"

the VS doesn't count as a shooting attack, the model counts as having already fired a weapon...

And again, you Run instead of shooting..... Run isn't a shooting attack either.

[Mauler]

The simplest argument is that it doesn't roll to hit = doesn't snap fire.

[tsinner]

A template does not roll to hit..we can't snap fire those.. But I agree it's not a shooting attack...so jink and vector strike do not affect one or the other