Is the Dimachaeron going to be an Apocalypse only model?
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Post by roughjnick on Jul 25, 2014 13:27:56 GMT
And hedges. And other models. And rivers. And either way it's still a full 6" move instead of a MTC roll with fleet, without assault grenades the point is moot when charging units in cover as the penalty still applies either way. Hedges yes, rivers maybe if they're narrow ones. Other models .... not unless they're your own models. To clear an enemy model you'd need to start at least 1 inch from their base, clear the model which has at least 1 inch width, and finish with your own base at least 1 inch the other side. With 6 inches of movement and a minimum 3.5 inch base width you can't do it. You need at least 6.5 inch movement and that's assumming the smallest enemy model. I like the model and most of it's rules but this guy wouldn't even be able to leap over a lone guardsman. He can leap over your own models if they're intervening but in that case it would be better to simply move them out of the way. Best to save the leap for the bonus to HOW.
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Post by creatureboi on Jul 25, 2014 16:02:55 GMT
If saving the leap for the assault move then assuming you roll high enough could you use the leap to jump over intervening terrain (eg agis defence line) thus not starting nor ending your move in terrain and so avoiding the i1 penalty?
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Post by swarm492 on Jul 25, 2014 16:09:36 GMT
True but he does ignore the terrain that he can move past thanks to the jump. I can see it now...Dimma having just saved some local guants after a pack of wild marines suddenly appeared, glaces at a three storey ruin between himself and the cry's for help from more of his hive-mates. With a quick glance over his shoulder and a thunder in his voice he declares "I must go, my people need me." And with that leaps into the sky, even today there are whispers within the stealer cults that he is more than mere myth, but a legend.
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Post by rehkal on Jul 25, 2014 16:40:03 GMT
I think we are thinking about this wrong. His movement doesn't much matter when charging right? Don't fast attack get a 2d6 charge range? Or am I still thinking previous edition? (don't have my book on me)
If you do well on the charge roll, jump to the other side of the enemy unit to get into base contact free and clean of terrain. Should even work going through the walls of ruins as you 'ignore' the terrain. And doesn't area terrain no longer exist as it once was? How -do- trees an such work now?
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Post by Mauler on Jul 25, 2014 16:52:09 GMT
I think we are thinking about this wrong. His movement doesn't much matter when charging right? Don't fast attack get a 2d6 charge range? Or am I still thinking previous edition? (don't have my book on me) If you do well on the charge roll, jump to the other side of the enemy unit to get into base contact free and clean of terrain. Should even work going through the walls of ruins as you 'ignore' the terrain. And doesn't area terrain no longer exist as it once was? How -do- trees an such work now? Everyone gets a 2D6 charge range Area terrain does still exist in the named terrain that we have like forests, ruins, craters; it's all specific now done via datasheets towards the back of the BRB. Chances are whatever scenery you have to hand it can fit into one of the categories listed.
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Post by niloc on Jul 25, 2014 17:21:44 GMT
All in all, another t6 3+ monster suits me just fine. Your Tau gunline can kill it with focused fire, (after they spent a turn or two killing two malanthropes, and 2 well hidden venoms) even if its dead, my other 8 t6 3+ MCs will still eat you. It's what the trygon once was. And it's a reliable source of ap2 ID for less than 285pts. Now the trygon is usable for its tactical options (hole). The leap feature, while situational and slightly gimmicky, will, like the red terrors swallow whole, be awesome every time it goes off. The FNP 4+ is fantastic. The key to success is target saturation. Simply put, we can field more, scary mcs for less. And I humbly submit, you can't kill all of my scary biomass vaccums fast enough. On top of all this, the maelstrom missions are the great equiliser, I've been playing them exclusively for awhile now, and one of my regular opponents plays 4 knights, we have about a 50/50 win loss ratio. Everyone who is upset about any of theese aditions suffers from lack of ability to properly analyze how they affect a completed list. To many of you use words like broken, or nerfed, when you should be saying weak in context x, or awesome when it gets into combat with a riptide. Basically... its totally possible to analyze all the nuance, and falure to do so, replaced by mathammered vaccum thinking, results in horrible unproductive whining. Everything ive seen from IA4 is exactly what we needed and I propose, the codex was designed with 7th edition and IA4 in mind. Go take your bugs and think outside the box, practice good generalship, and win games.
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Post by gigasnail on Jul 25, 2014 17:27:35 GMT
Simply put: the unit is ok, but it's not lictor Jesus and you're not jumping over much. It still has the same problems as all of our CC MC except a gliding flyrant.
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Post by rehkal on Jul 25, 2014 17:49:05 GMT
I think we are thinking about this wrong. His movement doesn't much matter when charging right? Don't fast attack get a 2d6 charge range? Or am I still thinking previous edition? (don't have my book on me) If you do well on the charge roll, jump to the other side of the enemy unit to get into base contact free and clean of terrain. Should even work going through the walls of ruins as you 'ignore' the terrain. And doesn't area terrain no longer exist as it once was? How -do- trees an such work now? Everyone gets a 2D6 charge range Area terrain does still exist in the named terrain that we have like forests, ruins, craters; it's all specific now done via datasheets towards the back of the BRB. Chances are whatever scenery you have to hand it can fit into one of the categories listed. Ah there we go. I have not played in quite awhile (not at all since new edition in fact) so I am not really clear on a lot of the rules unless I have the book with me. I think I may have been thinking about the old beast charge range too where you get the additional die to slightly improve chances of good charge range.
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Post by niloc on Jul 25, 2014 18:58:25 GMT
How did I know that Gigasnail would be the one to make comment.... . But it is an excellent combat MC. And it does not suck, like the bulk of the opinions on this page would suggest. Im just saying: cry less.
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Post by gigasnail on Jul 25, 2014 19:35:32 GMT
and i'm saying: it's choppy as all get out but it's more of the same. no one's crying, thanks.
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Post by tarrasque on Jul 25, 2014 20:06:39 GMT
How did I know that Gigasnail would be the one to make comment.... . But it is an excellent combat MC. And it does not suck, like the bulk of the opinions on this page would suggest. Im just saying: cry less. Keep in mind, we tyranid players are known for our adaptability. We can adapt to whine about anything! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Post by niloc on Jul 25, 2014 20:35:18 GMT
Your welcome Snailykins. Im so glad I could be of service.
I just get frustrated, we get this sweet new kit, and a new book, with rules that fix the malanthrope, and give us an answer to knights (brood of stonecrushers)... a new killy mc which is in fact situationaly faster than other mcs through terain, and less likely to be tarpitted (lack of fearless). And all anyone can do is gripe! *waaaah* it dosent have flesh hooks! *waaaah* its not a jump mc! Eldar get a jump mc! *waaaah* its new rules that none of us have even tried look situational! *waaaah* why can't they just give it a 2+? *waaaah* why is it only t6? D weapons and still instakill it! *waaaah* why can't it be gargantuan?
Makes me sick. NONE of our units are amazing in a vaccum. The army works through target saturation and attrition. If any of the bonuses you want were on this or any other monster, it would just be put first in the kill order. As it stands, they are all cookie cutter so that the enemy has to make a hard choice as to WHAT to kill WHEN. You see easily killable slow killy mc, I see the perfect bullet magnet distraction for games 1-3 (zomg FW!), murder machine games 4-6 (it dies easily, focus elsewhere), then constant mental psych out once they figure out the 4+fnp after it eats Drago. It's good specificly because of what it dosent have. Which is why I simply stated: CRY LESS. (And Snailykins, that comment was observational, not acusitory.)
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Post by gigasnail on Jul 25, 2014 20:41:41 GMT
lol, ok sparky.
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Post by Hive Bahamut on Jul 25, 2014 20:45:18 GMT
I think of it as a parallel of being pooped on by GW more than whining because we like too. FW picked up some slack for sure.
I'd like to pretend we also come up with more constructive outcomes and are solution oriented, instead of sales driven. For the most part there are some pretty good ideas tossed around. Sure there are flops but that is in everything.
We sure did need another 6" 6,6,6 MC. I can never get tired of paying through the nose for slug creature to just meander around the battlefield until it tries to jump over a bush and trips assaulting. Sub out that strike down and +1S HOW for counts as grenades instead. Never mind spine banks.
It looks like the Malanthrope has replaced the Crone. Gangly odd smelling slave driver for the win!
Tyranids never die, they get recycled.
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Post by swarm492 on Jul 25, 2014 21:03:07 GMT
Your welcome Snailykins. Im so glad I could be of service. I just get frustrated, we get this sweet new kit, and a new book, with rules that fix the malanthrope, and give us an answer to knights (brood of stonecrushers)... a new killy mc which is in fact situationaly faster than other mcs through terain, and less likely to be tarpitted (lack of fearless). And all anyone can do is gripe! *waaaah* it dosent have flesh hooks! *waaaah* its not a jump mc! Eldar get a jump mc! *waaaah* its new rules that none of us have even tried look situational! *waaaah* why can't they just give it a 2+? *waaaah* why is it only t6? D weapons and still instakill it! *waaaah* why can't it be gargantuan? Makes me sick. NONE of our units are amazing in a vaccum. The army works through target saturation and attrition. If any of the bonuses you want were on this or any other monster, it would just be put first in the kill order. As it stands, they are all cookie cutter so that the enemy has to make a hard choice as to WHAT to kill WHEN. You see easily killable slow killy mc, I see the perfect bullet magnet distraction for games 1-3 (zomg FW!), murder machine games 4-6 (it dies easily, focus elsewhere), then constant mental psych out once they figure out the 4+fnp after it eats Drago. It's good specificly because of what it dosent have. Which is why I simply stated: CRY LESS. (And Snailykins, that comment was observational, not acusitory.) I cant understand the motivation required to write all of this. This belongs in youtube comments.
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