Regarding furtherst range of firing squad

[Inquisitor Stingray]

Okay, so if I interpret the FAQ correctly, you can allocate Wounds from any Weapon in a unit up the maximum range of the units' Weapons. I recently played a game in which a group of enemy Guardsmen moved closer to my Hormagaunts in order to torch them with Flamers. Aside from Templates, the group was carrying Lasguns. Now, because the Guardsmen moved, their Lasgun range is halved to 12 inches. Does that mean that the maximum 'kill range' of his unit is only 12 inches (ie, Flamer Wounds can only be allocated to anything within that range) or is it still 24 inches, being the Lasguns maximum range?

Thanks.

[snowdaman]

rapid fire doesn't reduce range from moving. their range is always 24 inches for one shot and 2 shots at 12 inches

edit:

sorry hit sent before i finished answering. it will matter if all the guards men are within 12 and rapid fire. if even one guy doesn't then its 24
Sent from my GT-I9100M using proboards

[Inquisitor Stingray]

Derp, it seems I don't know my Rapid Fire rules. Thanks.

[julianrwr]

Also if all the guardsmen fire flamers only they can only kill up to the max distance of the flamers, but if one fires a lasgun then the max range its 24"

[Anggul]

I think what he's actually asking is:

When they rapid fire, does that mean their maximum kill range is 12"? I too have wondered this. They aren't firing 24" when they rapid fire, but I'm not sure if it works that way.

[WestRider]

The Rapid Fire Rules on Pg.52 aren't as clear as I'd like, but the weapon's range doesn't actually change. You just get an extra shot if you're within half of that range as far as I can tell.

[Raven]

You fire a lasgun and may allocate the wounds up to 24" away, if at least 1 model in the target unit is within 12" you get a second shot that you may allocate up to 24" away.*

*Unless, of course, the unit is also firing a weapon with greater than 24" range.

[krimson]

if all the weapons fire rapid fire the distance is only 12" because max range of rapid fire is 12".

However if even one unit does not, the entire unit gets full range so long as they have line of sight.

You can also abuse cover saves by leaving half of a unit in strong cover. If one unit is not in cover, then he must choose if he will focus fire. if he chooses to target the entire unit, your whole unit gets the best cover save. If he decides to fire on those without cover, he cannot wipe you out. you can use this to force some interesting targeting priority choices.

Only saying it doesn't make much sense, but at least it goes both ways

[snowdaman]

cover works on a model to model basis. u would only get a cover save on the guys in cover. u always go closest to farthest. so if the closest have cover u will get it until the closest doesn't have cover

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[Inquisitor Stingray]

Yes. As far as I can tell, Focus Fire is mostly useful when wanting to kill things that aren't in cover, rather than the stuff that is close to you.

In any case, the fact that I had Rapid Fire wrong pretty much tells me what I need to know.

[gigasnail]

Apr 21, 2014 21:01:04 GMT krimson said:

if all the weapons fire rapid fire the distance is only 12" because max range of rapid fire is 12".

However if even one unit does not, the entire unit gets full range so long as they have line of sight.

You can also abuse cover saves by leaving half of a unit in strong cover. If one unit is not in cover, then he must choose if he will focus fire. if he chooses to target the entire unit, your whole unit gets the best cover save. If he decides to fire on those without cover, he cannot wipe you out. you can use this to force some interesting targeting priority choices.

Only saying it doesn't make much sense, but at least it goes both ways

That's not how rapid fire works. It does t reduce the range of the weapon at all, you just get an extra shot.

[coredump]

Krimson is wrong on both issues.

[krimson]

Apr 22, 2014 0:14:31 GMT coredump said:

Krimson is wrong on both issues.

The cover one i know im right on. it does not go on a model by model basis, everything is determined by unit. Look at page 19 of the BRB under "Units in cover"
You must choose to focus each level of cover save, the brb says nothing about a model to model basis. It's either the whole unit or focus fire.

Rapid fire says it fires two shots up to half range. and one shot at full range.  Taking two shots should naturally mean the range of the weapon for that round of shooting is effectively halved.  The rules are quite unclear, unless it is in the FAQ somewhere.


But the cover issue I am 100% right. even the example shown is saying must choose which units to focus fire

[Raven]

Apr 22, 2014 4:09:36 GMT krimson said:

Apr 22, 2014 0:14:31 GMT coredump said:

Krimson is wrong on both issues.

The cover one i know im right on. it does not go on a model by model basis, everything is determined by unit. Look at page 19 of the BRB under "Units in cover"
You must choose to focus each level of cover save, the brb says nothing about a model to model basis. It's either the whole unit or focus fire.

"If, when you come to allocate a Wound, the target model's body (as defined on page 8) is at least 25% obscured from the point of view of at least one firer, Wounds allocated to that model receive a cover save."

"The type of cover save a model receives depends on exactly what he is sheltering behind."

Then there's also the the "Units in Cover" explanation on page 19, which has 1 unit of Ork boys, 3 of which have 4+ cover, 4 have 5+ cover, and 3 have no cover save.

Rapid fire says it fires two shots up to half range. and one shot at full range.  Taking two shots should naturally mean the range of the weapon for that round of shooting is effectively halved.  The rules are quite unclear, unless it is in the FAQ somewhere.

A lasgun has 24" range. A Lasgun firing a second shot due to Rapid Fire is still a lasgun, and thus still has 24" range.

[krimson]

Raven, you left a huge part of the "units in cover" example out.

In order to understand the rule you must read the "focus fire" section on page 18.

"Sometimes a unit will only partially be in cover and some not. In this case, you have a choice: your unit can shoot at the squad as a whole, or you can choose to focus fire on enemies who are less hidden."

"If you choose to focus fire choose a cover save value. Thiscan be between 2+ and 6+ your opponent can only allocate wounds to models with a cover save equal or worse than the value stated"


This means if you do not choose to focus fire, even one model in heavy cover will allocate his cover save to the entire unit.

The focus fire rule then goes on to ellaborate on page 19, and leaves an example "Units in cover" to show what i'm saying is the actual way you are supposed to allocate wounds to units in mixed cover