|
Post by skalathrax on Jan 15, 2014 1:26:48 GMT
So, I was disappointed with the new codex. MASSIVELY disappointed. However... The relentless enthusiasm of some members of this board (I won't pick out any names ) has pushed me to see things from a slightly different perspective. With that in mind, I have decided to put forward this list of the precious few gems I could find in the codex. Some are my own ideas, mostly they are spirited from various other threads. Tervigon w/ miasmic cannon, cluster spines & dessicator larvae Drops 2 blast templates (1 small, 1 large) or two flame templates that wound on 2+ each turn. Combine with Hive Commander to outflank onto opponent's backfield and mess with their objective holders Tyranid Warriors Venomthropes and an aegis defence line for 2+ cover, add biovores to taste, obviously still vulnerable to ignores cover but what isn't LictorsNot fearless. Infilitrate them forward into area terrain. Go to ground the minute they get shot at for 2+ cover. Get back up immediately, free to move, when your flyrants move into range and make them fearless. Pushing them forward early may seem reckless but becomes important when combined with Mawlocs later on.... VenomthropesCan man quad guns, (for the time being) might as well give them a gun to shoot Biovores/Spore minesConsider intentionally blocking line of sight to your Biovore's target. Sometimes you WANT the spore mine to miss. For example if your termagants are locked with an imperial guard blob. You can't shoot into combat but you can assault.... Spore mines can also draw/bait overwatch. And they're a tempting target too. No one wants to take a large blast they can possibly avoid. Grey Knights Hard counterTired of getting force weaponed to death. Try this one... Flyrant with psychic scream. Zoom right into the middle of the grey knight lines, fire it off. 2d6 + 2 - (Ld-3)?! That's an AVERAGE of 3 no cover, no armour saves against every unit within 6". Ouch. Mawloc Clusterf***There's nothing stopping a Mawloc from Deep-striking straight into a combat. Combat where the enemy HAVE to be as tightly packed as possible.... If you find your lictor hopelessly outnumbered and swarmed by enemies (see above), call in a Mawloc strike on its head. Two S6, AP 2 large blasts should clear out that combat zone fast enough (unfortunately probably along with the lictor too but we can always make more of those
|
|
|
Post by daboarder on Jan 15, 2014 1:43:51 GMT
NO! NO! NO!
The mawloc lictor combo is BAD, the only way a lictor will ever guide a mawloc in onto a unit is if your opponent lets it.
The lictor needs to be with 6 of the mawloc location at the start of its turn, so either your opponent is willing to accept the attack (not really great for you then as they have obviously done something they feel is better for them) Or is an idiot.
All the need to do in they're turn is move, that is all. They could also assault the lictor and kill it, or just shoot it.
|
|
|
Post by Inquisitor Stingray on Jan 15, 2014 1:55:11 GMT
Yeah, the Lictor/Mawloc combo sounds great on paper, but I don't see it working out. You'd have to Infiltrate the Lictor in cover and out of sight to not get shot to pieces, which usually means it won't be right next enemy units. It will then have to slog towards the enemy until it's within close enough proximity for the TFtD attack to actually touch something. It will then have to stand there out in the open for at least one turn, until its buddy shows up. I cannot imagine anyone letting this happen. Even if they didn't know about the Mawloc, most people will blast that Lictor to kingdom come once it pops its head out.
|
|
|
Post by skalathrax on Jan 15, 2014 1:58:46 GMT
The combo is incidental. Your lictors move around attacking things or harassing as best they can, using Hit and Run. They don't stand around and wait for a Mawloc to come in.
But if you find yourself with a Lictor on its last legs in combat at the start of your turn, why not guide the Mawloc in on top of the Lictor?
(Also they wouldn't be lone lictors I was running)
|
|
|
Post by nidcron on Jan 15, 2014 1:59:01 GMT
Lictor + Mawloc was always a pipe dream, sounded great on paper but in all the times I attempted it in the previous codex not once did it ever actually work.
The only use I ever found for Lictors was bait, and since they were made of paper it never took much to bring them down.
The only thing so far I have found in the new dex worth getting happy about was reduced points on gants and Flyrants, but I would take the higher points cost to still take Biomancy powers and reroll on my 2x scytals.
|
|
|
Post by Inquisitor Stingray on Jan 15, 2014 2:07:34 GMT
The combo is incidental. Your lictors move around attacking things or harassing as best they can, using Hit and Run. They don't stand around and wait for a Mawloc to come in. But if you find yourself with a Lictor on its last legs in combat at the start of your turn, why not guide the Mawloc in on top of the Lictor? (Also they wouldn't be lone lictors I was running) Maybe if the Lictors still boosted Reserve Rolls. I guess I just wouldn't take Lictors in the first place and taking three of them + a Mawloc in the hopes of pulling off a very circumstantial (but admittedly awesome) combo seems unreliably and somewhat expensive. This is just me talking, I love Lictors but find them too underwhelming. By all means try this out and let us hear how it goes.
|
|
|
Post by skalathrax on Jan 15, 2014 2:13:36 GMT
I was thinking two Lictors. Only 100 points so hardly breaking the bank. Infiltrated forward and gone to ground for 2+ cover they'd be a pain in the backside to remove without ignores cover.
Synapse gets them back up and moving the turn after and I feel they might actually make combat for once in this codex. From there they use hit and run to pick on vehicles/weakened units
|
|
|
Post by vampiremonkey on Jan 15, 2014 2:23:20 GMT
Lictors as forward observers for deepstrike spore mine clusters !? Could be an effective disruption in the right situation.
|
|
|
Post by gman25639 on Jan 15, 2014 2:33:27 GMT
Lictors as forward observers for deepstrike spore mine clusters !? Could be an effective disruption in the right situation. ^ This. I don't own any biovores currently, but I have 10x spore mines and 2x lictors, once again, I will decide on exactly how to go about things once the codex is in my hands.
|
|
|
Post by coredump on Jan 15, 2014 3:02:20 GMT
Lictor+Mawloc....hmmm......
Okay, the 'simple' way is just never going to work, no way you move/DS lictors into position, and wait a turn, and get the mawloc to do damage... just no.
But...
How often do you get stuck in an extended CC? Picture this, on turn X you assault those terminators with a brood of gaunts, and either join the assault with a lictor, or just move one nearby. Turn X, lots of gaunts die, Turn Y lots of gaunts die. Turn Z you DS the mawloc and kill all those tasty terminators.
Or...
You have a brood of warriors sitting on an objective, with a lictor nearby. On Turn X you get assaulted by some bad guys. On Turn Y you DS the mawloc. Your 3W warriors will survive, your mawloc will mishap, and all of the bad guys will die. (a sort of counter assault)
There are other variations, but the concept is the same. Now, this is *not* some I WIN gimmick, and is probably not even a reliable strategy. But.... if you are already going to take Mawlocs, are these possibilities worth grabbing a lictor or two? (Hint: I have no idea)
|
|
|
Post by coredump on Jan 15, 2014 3:05:23 GMT
Lictors as forward observers for deepstrike spore mine clusters !? Could be an effective disruption in the right situation. Guys, this just isn't going to work. Not with a mawloc, and definitely not with spore mines. First, Spore mines can't land on a target, and they can't assault the turn they come in. (so, kind of a complete waste.) There is *no way* you will get a lictor within 4" of the enemy, and that enemy to let the lictor survive *and* not just move out of the way.
|
|
|
Post by Sensei on Jan 15, 2014 7:07:29 GMT
So, I was disappointed with the new codex. MASSIVELY disappointed. However... The relentless enthusiasm of some members of this board (I won't pick out any names ) has pushed me to see things from a slightly different perspective. With that in mind, I have decided to put forward this list of the precious few gems I could find in the codex. Some are my own ideas, mostly they are spirited from various other threads. Tervigon w/ miasmic cannon, cluster spines & dessicator larvae Drops 2 blast templates (1 small, 1 large) or two flame templates that wound on 2+ each turn. Combine with Hive Commander to outflank onto opponent's backfield and mess with their objective holders Tyranid Warriors Venomthropes and an aegis defence line for 2+ cover, add biovores to taste, obviously still vulnerable to ignores cover but what isn't LictorsNot fearless. Infilitrate them forward into area terrain. Go to ground the minute they get shot at for 2+ cover. Get back up immediately, free to move, when your flyrants move into range and make them fearless. Pushing them forward early may seem reckless but becomes important when combined with Mawlocs later on.... VenomthropesCan man quad guns, (for the time being) might as well give them a gun to shoot Biovores/Spore minesConsider intentionally blocking line of sight to your Biovore's target. Sometimes you WANT the spore mine to miss. For example if your termagants are locked with an imperial guard blob. You can't shoot into combat but you can assault.... Spore mines can also draw/bait overwatch. And they're a tempting target too. No one wants to take a large blast they can possibly avoid. Grey Knights Hard counterTired of getting force weaponed to death. Try this one... Flyrant with psychic scream. Zoom right into the middle of the grey knight lines, fire it off. 2d6 + 2 - (Ld-3)?! That's an AVERAGE of 3 no cover, no armour saves against every unit within 6". Ouch. Mawloc Clusterf***There's nothing stopping a Mawloc from Deep-striking straight into a combat. Combat where the enemy HAVE to be as tightly packed as possible.... If you find your lictor hopelessly outnumbered and swarmed by enemies (see above), call in a Mawloc strike on its head. Two S6, AP 2 large blasts should clear out that combat zone fast enough (unfortunately probably along with the lictor too but we can always make more of those I like the tervigon/miasma cannon idea. Either the blast or template option are decent, and two wall of death overwatch chances wounding on 2+ is a pretty big deterrent for anyone thinking about charging - which is nice because then you can stick with the primaris power to extend synapse and keep your gaunts more than 12 inches away instead of keeping them closer for synapse and charge blockers. you're right that biovores can't shoot into CC, and also correct that (at least until FAQ'ed) spore mines can charge the turn they are placed after missing. However biovores still cannot fire at open ground, so unless there is another enemy near the ongoing cc that you can target and then subsequently miss, AND your spores scatter so they land near enough the ongoing cc that they can charge, this tactic isn't really useful. I find the mawloc/lictor combo very gimmicky and very dependent on a lot of variables working out in the right order to pull it off. IF it works, it could be great and be very effective, but it's not reliable or even probable....just plausible. Lictors guiding underground-mawloc-rockets into a combat your guants are losing and only hitting the enemy sounds really cool... but it probably won't happen. The only time I can see something like this maybe being pulled off is if your lictor deepstrikes, is placed within 6 inches or an enemy, and then your mawloc makes their reserve roll and hits the unit near the lictor. Depends on them both coming in on the same turn though, and not something to be relied on. One thing I noticed that would maybe....maayyyybbbe make this useable is if "Alien Cunning" allowed a +1/-1 on any reserve roll in order to open up possibilities like this and the trygon tunnel to be more tactically useful. Ironically, our cunning hive mind probably actually hinders our ability to pull those two combos off by forcing rerolls on reserves so they are more likely to come in on a turn that is not useful
|
|
|
Post by skalathrax on Jan 15, 2014 10:20:04 GMT
Lictor+Mawloc....hmmm...... Okay, the 'simple' way is just never going to work, no way you move/DS lictors into position, and wait a turn, and get the mawloc to do damage... just no. But... How often do you get stuck in an extended CC? Picture this, on turn X you assault those terminators with a brood of gaunts, and either join the assault with a lictor, or just move one nearby. Turn X, lots of gaunts die, Turn Y lots of gaunts die. Turn Z you DS the mawloc and kill all those tasty terminators. Or... You have a brood of warriors sitting on an objective, with a lictor nearby. On Turn X you get assaulted by some bad guys. On Turn Y you DS the mawloc. Your 3W warriors will survive, your mawloc will mishap, and all of the bad guys will die. (a sort of counter assault) There are other variations, but the concept is the same. Now, this is *not* some I WIN gimmick, and is probably not even a reliable strategy. But.... if you are already going to take Mawlocs, are these possibilities worth grabbing a lictor or two? (Hint: I have no idea) This. the combo won't work by standing next to the unit you want to hit. but if you can tie that unit up with gaunts... lictor guides mawloc in on top of the combat. the gaunts die, but so does everything else in the melee. even without the lictor, big swirling combats that you're likely to lose eventually are perfect mawloc bait
|
|
|
Post by ZergLord on Jan 15, 2014 10:47:44 GMT
In my theory Lictor+Mawloc could work in a way, not because you'll actually manage to guide the Mawloc via Lictors but because whatever happens you can manipulate your opponent to a certain extent.
So let's say you have at least one Mawloc, unit of 3 Lictors, and the rest of your army is a good threat (TMC, Horde, you choose). You infiltrate lictors somewhere close to where you think that the pie plate is gonna do most damage. If it's your first turn the Lictors get close and the rest of your army moves forward. In either case your opponent has to react to those Lictors - he's either gonna move away or shoot at them, which could be an advantage.
Now, I think that the problem with my theory is that it's dependent on terrain. If there's no area terrain to infiltrate Lictors, they're gonna die quite easily.
|
|
|
Post by Sensei on Jan 15, 2014 10:56:23 GMT
Doesn't necessarily have to take the gaunts out... Mawloc comes in without scattering (with lictor support) so just make sure the blast is only over enemy units or at least hits as few of your units as possible. Works in theory, probably less effective in practice.
Here's a question that probably doesn't have a clear cut answer though: Mawloc comes in, hits an ongoing CC battle. Over the course of the two hits, it kills enough models so they are no longer in base contact...does that mean they each make a consolidtion move? Further, does that mean your unit that was in CC can now charge again in your assault phase? Very unlikely to occur, but interested to know...
|
|