Spore Mines/clusters/cysts/burst Ins and outs

[coredump]

Okay, ever since the rumors started, I have had these weird feelings about how Spore Mines have changed. All the info seemed a bit... off. Well, now I have all the info, and yeah, it *is* a bit off. I have done my best to put it all together. I will start with the rules, and later get into my take on the implications.



BIOVORES:
Biovores have a Spore Mine Launcher. This is a barrage weapon that follows the normal Barrage rules. IOW, if there are 2 or 3 Biovores, it follows the Multi-Barrage rules. As long as any part of the first Lg Blast marker hits any model (friend or foe)... you treat is as a standard (multi) Barrage.
If the first Lg Blast marker completely misses, two things happen.
1) You place D3 spore mines anywhere under the blast marker. and
2) If a multi-barrage, you continue to roll scatter for the remaining barrage shots.
Please note: If these hit models, treat normally. If they do not hit models, they do *not* get additional spore mines.

This is a bit odd... and may get FAQ'd differently... but what else is new?

The D3 spore mines now act as a Spore Mine Cluster. (see below)


HARPY:
Harpies have Spore Mine Cysts. This is also a barrage weapon, but is always a single barrage. (Only one Lg Blast marker) The Harpy fires the Cysts during the movement phase, and can target any model it has flown over. (There is discussion if 'wingspan' counts for this.) You still roll for scatter, but only use 1D6 for distance.
As long as the Marker is over any model, treat normally.
If the Lg Blast Marker completely misses, place D3 spore mines anywhere under the Marker. These spore mines now act as a Spore Mine Cluster. (See Below)



CLUSTERS:
Spore mine clusters can be selected as Fast Attack, and can be deployed normally, walk on reserves, or enter via Deep Strike. If you elect to DS, and they land on a model, they will Mishap. (Lets hope for a FAQ correction... but for now...)
Once on the board, they can Move (3"), Run(D6/2), Assault(2D6/2). (of course, no Move or Assault if they come in from reserves)

SMC only explode once in CC, at Init step 10. Enemy proximity nor shooting, will make them explode. If shot, they are removed as any other model.
When they Explode, there is only 1 Lg Blast marker, but its S goes up for each additional spore mine.

It is important to realize that 'cluster' no longer means "all mines in base contact", a 'cluster' is just a synonym for 'unit' or 'brood'. Same 2" coherency.

Exploding SMC are *not* barrage, but they do ignore cover but they do not cause Pinning.



Now for the Fun and Games:

SMC that enter via Biovore and Harpy are not entering via Reserves. Thus they can assault.
In fact, ones from Biovores can Run or Assault
Ones from Harpies can Move, then either Run or Assault.
And remember, you get to place them anywhere under the Lg Blast marker, so place them towards your target.
Assault range of 2D6/2 can easily get really low numbers, but you should still be in assault range except for the worst of scatter results. However, the target gets to Overwatch as normal, so having all the mines near the front isn't bad.


The Lg Blast Marker is a circle, and units tend to be circles or rectangles... this means that you will be lucky if only half of the SMC LG Blast is not 'wasted' on empty space. So.....
When able, try and position with Move to get a track to 'inside' the target unit.
Remember that the first mine must go to the closest model, but the other mines can get as far 'inside' as they can reach. And....
Any mines not in Base can *Pile In* another 3".
When they explode at I10, you can use *any* of the mines. A mine on the 'inside' will be *much* better than one on the 'outside' of the target unit.

You can't target Launchers or Cysts at models in CC, but you can assault them with SMC.



Vehicles:
Bwahaha.... rules? who needs rules?
Biovores and harpies dropping on vehicles is a waste, since S4 vs side armor is a waste.

SMC on the other hand... who knows?
When the SMC explodes, is it barrage? Blast? CC attack? It uses a blast marker, during the CC phase, spore mine direct hits are barrage..... so...... yay for tight rules!!
this matters a lot, since barrage hits side, CC hits rear, and Blast would hit the side the mines are on.

My best guess is the same side as the mines, blast or not.





Please keep in mind, these rule 'details' are just window dressing. Even taking advantage of everything mentioned is not likely to make a large difference, this is not going to win the game, but it may kill a few extra marines.

[WestRider]

Interesting. I've been assuming that you lost the extra Blast Markers if the first shot in a Multiple Barrage missed, but reading it again, you're right. We'll see if it gets FAQed, but for now, you get Spore Mines, plus the extra Blasts.

When they explode in CC, it's explicitly differentiated from normal CC Attacks, and it certainly isn't a Barrage. I think you're right that they hit the facing nearest the center of the Blast.

[nameless]

I think there is precedence for the spore mine in explosion (using a template in CC) counting as the actual facing of the vehicle but I'm not sure where (I know Typhis' rules don't say anything about it). The inclusion of ignore cover on most blast templates that are used in CC seems to indicate that it isn't counted as a CC attack, otherwise, what's the point of making it ignore cover. Typhis does say ignore cover, Yriel does not.

Also, most people keep saying that S10 is impossible with spore mine clusters, but it is not the number of mines in the unit, it is the number of mines in the combat under the template. So, two units could get to S10. Also, if you are able to get a nice spread, you can have multiple explosions in one combat at I10.

[swarmy]

That is a pretty weird twist that nothing else besides CC would detonate those things. I'm going to have to give this a try in actual games to see how that plays out. I am really hoping they make a common sense call on deep striking on top of things detonating in the obviously needed FAQ. You can drop them from a bird 200ft up in the air to detonate them but if they are hurled down from the stratosphere of a planet they can "misshap"? Shooting it doesn't detonate them but drifting over and headbutting marines does?

[WestRider]

Jan 13, 2014 20:42:35 GMT nameless said:

Also, most people keep saying that S10 is impossible with spore mine clusters, but it is not the number of mines in the unit, it is the number of mines in the combat under the template. So, two units could get to S10. Also, if you are able to get a nice spread, you can have multiple explosions in one combat at I10.

It says the number of Mines in the Cluster, not the number of Mines in the Combat. At least in the Digital Dex.

[nameless]

Yeah, I see what you're saying. For some reason, I thought it was worded differently.

[tsinner]

Will terrain slow our init to 1?

[nameless]

Jan 13, 2014 21:58:24 GMT tsinner said:

Will terrain slow our init to 1?

No, I don't believe so as the explosion is not an attack. In fact, the mine already has initiative of 1.

[Davor]

What happens when you shot at a mine or a SMC? I don't think they explode, so you just remove the spore/mini?

Also a tactic I can think of (not sure if good or not) is have the SMC with your 'Stealers. So if your opponent is going to overwatch, they overwatch the SMC, or the 'Stealers.

So instead of using Rippers now to trigger OverWatch, we can use SMC now, or a combination of both.

[WestRider]

Mines just get removed as casualties if they get shot now, yeah.

[glassiya]

1) You place D3 spore mines anywhere under the blast marker. and
2) If a multi-barrage, you continue to roll scatter for the remaining barrage shots.
Please note: If these hit models, treat normally. If they do not hit models, they do *not* get additional spore mines.

Doubt it.

Cause either you just put those spores and forget about explosions;
or you DO resolve them, but before that you have to resolve FIRST explosion as well - which you just put your spores under. Cause blast is still there.

[coredump]

You bring up an interesting issue, but it doesn't really impact my assertions.

The rules say to put the D3 mines "under the blast marker"; and you are correct, it never says to ignore the damage from the Launcher or Cyst. So, technically, pure RAW it would kill the mines.

The rules, however, do say to place the second and third blast marker, so that is what you need to do.