Post by jocke01 on Jan 13, 2014 3:01:19 GMT
Now that I have read the codex a few times and played a few games here is my general thoughts about the changes in each unit. It's alot of units and would make this post a bit to long so I put it on a newly made blog I plan to start
You can read it here: jocke01doeswh40k.wordpress.com/
If you already know most units or don't feel like reading all that here is the summary of units.
Good unit = unit that almost always is a good choice. (compared to units in same slot and in general)
Decent unit = unit that might be worth taking and have situational use (compared to units in same slot and in general)
Weak unit = unit that could be used but will be either a bit too expensive or not filling a decent role (compared to units in the same slot and in general
Bad unit = unit that have very few uses or are either too expensive or not good enough for it's role (compared to units in same slot and in general)
HQ
1. Hive Tyrant Flyrants are cheaper and shoots better. Melee and support abilities are worse. Walking with 2x devs can be nice with BS4 and the better tyrant guards but sadly no old adversary bubble.
2. Swarmlord Alot of changes but and I think itäs pretty much the same level of good. (remember 4 rolls on biomancy wasn't designed)
2.5. Tyrant guard Weapon options are expensive but can take melee buffs so you can take cheaper and more powerful unit for either swarmlord or the tyrant. 60p was a bit much so the 10p decrease really is really nice.
3. Old one eye Cheaper(not enough) and takes an HQ slot. Didn't gain any abilities to help him. If you can get him into combat with marines he will do some dmg, but not 220p worth of dmg.
4. Tervigon Can't be your warlord, massive point increase and now hurts gaunts instead of supporting them. I say the tervigons days are gone.
5. Tyranid prime. As before but could have been nice with the new regeneration but they made him 45 more expensive to stop you from doing that effective
6. Deathleaper Still puts -3 on a enemy character and can now only be shot by snap shots. Takes an HQ slot. could be used to help mawlocs. This work like a lictor should by being hard to hit and must hunt weak units since it died from anything decent in combat. Sadly you can only take one and it's 130p.
Troops
1. Warriors Can now take grenades, that's about it. 3 man objective holder A bit more important now to cover synapse, maybe must take even.
2. Genestealers didn't gain grenades (warriors get it but not them...logic) Broodlord got the horror but it's 130 for 1 power with 5 bodyguards. If the broodlord was like 15-20p uppgrade sure but for 60p...ugh
3. Termagaunts Cheaper but expensive biomorphs, can't pod them with devs but devs are now cheaper and they can mix guns in each brood. The best troop choice now.
4. Hormagaunt. Cheaper but the options are more expensive so if you take them with toxin sacs they are actually nefred when they really needed to be buffed. Can run a few extra inches each game.
5. Ripper swarms Little more expensive, but not much better than before. I guess they can tie up some unit that dosen't have S6 or higher.
Elites
1. Hive guard more expensive and lost 1BS, can buy a haywire blast gun with 18 range. Still our best choice for transport and flyers but the BS drop hurts them. They got better ws than our assaults MC's so Gw is doing something right. Main gun got ignore cover.
2. Lictors Cheaper, can now inflitrate and can be deployed as groups of 3. Still get's killed by (most things) but as groups if 3 they can actually do some dmg if you infiltrate them and go second.
3. Zoanthrope Lost pod, lost rulebook powers, now psyker lvl2 with 1 power locked so they get only 1 roll. Warp lance is now ap2 and they must walk up now. At least they are now only 50p.
4. Venomthrope Now give shroud and are cheaper. No longer does dangerous terrain(like marines even noticed that). This probably a must take now to give a mix of 5+ and 3+ cover save to your army. We need to practice hiding them behind our units so they can't be shot.
5. Haurspex CC monster with WS, I and attacks 3, yeah even with some cool abilitites this just won't work for a CC monster.
6. Pyrovore It's still a joke.
Fast attack
1. Shrikes they are now 5p cheaper but boneswords are now only sp3. Prime still can't join them and have the same problem as warriors.
2. Raveners Didn't get the changes they needed, they are beasts but they really need toxin sacs and be able to start with rending claws.
2.5. Red terror If you face indepentant characters that's infantry and you get them in combat, swallow hole is cool. Otherwise now this is more only if you have the model.
3. Flying rippers rippers with wings that cost more.
4. Gargoyle If blind works on each hit then it can work to cripple a unit for a turn if you get close. I rather have toxin gargs with old blinding venom. Toxin/glands more expensive...
5. Harpy Can be used to hunt infantry vs armies that don't have skyfire or decen amount of shooting. Sadly that's almost every army.
6. Crone S8 vector is nice vs flyers and light vehicles. 4 haywire shots with re-roll hits can be used vs a flyer...once. Still T5 4+ is pretty lame when a quad gun is 50p. Drool cannon is just a heavy flamer so after the the tentaclids are used the crone can't really do much, the flamer really needed to be torrent. Can work against flyer spam if you use 3.
7. Spore mines Must now deep strike then assault to do any dmg. They blow up at the start of combat as a single blast with extra S for each mine and ignore cover. Cost 5p. Problem is that they must land without mishap and then get into combat with half movement and half assault range. Would have been awesome if they exploded on impact. Maybe against orks.
Heavy support
1. Carnifex 40p cheaper and does d3 hammer of wrath hits (ap- bleh) I2 so at least they strike before fists. Options still the same but you still can customize them and use the awesome kit. They fixed 1 of the many problems with this unit anyway. Brood of 3 with 2x devs are a powerful but extremly expensive unit that need alot of support
2. Biovores +W is really nice and they now are 5p cheaper. Mines if they miss are a little better now 3 of these guys are now even better.
3. Trygon&Prime(divide them into 2 slots to make it look like you did more work gw...) slightly cheaper and the prime can now take bio artifacts. lost re-rolls but the prime can take the uniqe lashwip&sword to gain instant death and S7 with I7. Expensive and only one.
4. Mawloc 30p cheaper and now ignore cover. Not only are they made useable but are now cheaper, nice.
5. Exorcrine A bit expensive for only the gun. BS4 can be nice if enemy MC's are trying to get close to you. AP2 shooting is nice but it won't be able to reach those riptides or wraithknights that hide in the back.
6. Tyrannofex Down to normal point cost, still BS3 and rupture cannons still bad. I can see using 2 of these since T6 2+ save can be kinda hard to deal with especially if you give him catalyst or put a venomthrope behind him.
I haven't tried the new units enough and maybe some build may change my mind down the line bot for the moment this is my rating.
This I my first list ideas.
HQ
Either you go with dual flyrants or 1 flyrant + swarmlord with 3 toxin sac tyrant guards. Another is for a cheaper route you go with tyranid prime and deathleaper with the prime for you warlord and deathleaper to guide mawlocs and give the -3LD because some taudar have only 1 psyker to so give him the -3. The prime I would put in either a biovore/hive guard or venomthrope brood to tank T5 wounds with regen.
Troops
Termagaunts! either just spam termagaunts or perhaps try a tervigon to hide in the back and put out troops but I would not use more than one now because of the nerfs. 4x 20 gaunts is only 320p now and my old dual tervigons used to go for 370p so either 4-5 broods of 20 gaunts will be my new standard troop build. Not easy to kill 100 wounds with hopefully always fearless that sit in cover and holding objectives. Rest of the troops don't feel worth it. Hormagaunts could work. Since we need more synapse cover the 3 man strangler warrior brood is nice and cheap for backfield synapse&objectives.
Elites
Hive guard are still one of the best units we got vs flyers and/or transports. You are gonna want to use at least one venomthrope brood. either 1 or use a bigger one and put a prime in there to tank, remember with shroud they got 3+ cover save while standing in cover so people must have ignore cover to kill them easily. I think zoans aren't worth it since the anit-tank guns is to short range and 1 roll for support power is not good enough. Rest is kinda meh.
Fast attack
Gargoyle is nice to screen units to boos the shrouded from venomthropes. I need to test dual crone list vs flyers but I feel it is not gonna overwhelm. Spore mines if they FAQ it to destroy on impact is good point waste.
Heavy support.
Mawlocs is really nice, 2 of them dropping on top of aegis lines or troops in cover is quite nice now. Especially if you can deploy them so you get double blasts since mishap is only destroyed on 1/6, still dangerous but you get 2 blasts then. All mawlocs needed IMO was ignore cover and now they got cheaper as well. I think I will put 1-2 in every list I use swarmlord since it's the only + reserve. Could work with commando deathleaper as well (risky but fun if you can pull it off). Biovores are probably a must take just to kill enemy scoring units. so at least 1 brood. Exorcrine I need more test games with but I can work but I think you really need swarmlord for this again. 3 rolls to try and get onslaught (run&shoot) and to give pref enemy or mosnter hunter to it each turn.
I'm gonna put up some test lists in the army list section.
Don't get me wrong this codex is a mess, even more than the last one (at least in 6t rules). We probably need to buy alot more gaunts and change alot of our armies if we are going to try to adapt ot this new codex.
You can still get some fun new things that will work but It really feels like you can't build any fun themed compedetive lists.
Vanguard? yeah lictos still kinda meh and genestealers got no buffs.
Swarm? Termagaunts cheaper yes but tervigons worse, hormagaunts worse(pretty similar but not good enough), gargoyles toxin are more expensive.
Nidzilla? Yes I think nidzilla with mass amount of gaunts instead of the traditional min amount of gaunts this is the way to play.
Sadly this codex just turnes me off playing nids, so much that I'm actually feel like I don't want to spend a bunch of money to try to make this codex work when I can have so much fun building lists with my space marines. So my tyranid army will go dormant on my shelf but I will stay active here on the hive, trying to help people do something with this codex and probably still paint some of my still unpainted models. Hopefully a supplement or the rumored 7th edition will make the nids shin e a bit more but untill then I'm not giving GW any more money for tyranids.
You can read it here: jocke01doeswh40k.wordpress.com/
If you already know most units or don't feel like reading all that here is the summary of units.
Good unit = unit that almost always is a good choice. (compared to units in same slot and in general)
Decent unit = unit that might be worth taking and have situational use (compared to units in same slot and in general)
Weak unit = unit that could be used but will be either a bit too expensive or not filling a decent role (compared to units in the same slot and in general
Bad unit = unit that have very few uses or are either too expensive or not good enough for it's role (compared to units in same slot and in general)
HQ
1. Hive Tyrant Flyrants are cheaper and shoots better. Melee and support abilities are worse. Walking with 2x devs can be nice with BS4 and the better tyrant guards but sadly no old adversary bubble.
2. Swarmlord Alot of changes but and I think itäs pretty much the same level of good. (remember 4 rolls on biomancy wasn't designed)
2.5. Tyrant guard Weapon options are expensive but can take melee buffs so you can take cheaper and more powerful unit for either swarmlord or the tyrant. 60p was a bit much so the 10p decrease really is really nice.
3. Old one eye Cheaper(not enough) and takes an HQ slot. Didn't gain any abilities to help him. If you can get him into combat with marines he will do some dmg, but not 220p worth of dmg.
4. Tervigon Can't be your warlord, massive point increase and now hurts gaunts instead of supporting them. I say the tervigons days are gone.
5. Tyranid prime. As before but could have been nice with the new regeneration but they made him 45 more expensive to stop you from doing that effective
6. Deathleaper Still puts -3 on a enemy character and can now only be shot by snap shots. Takes an HQ slot. could be used to help mawlocs. This work like a lictor should by being hard to hit and must hunt weak units since it died from anything decent in combat. Sadly you can only take one and it's 130p.
Troops
1. Warriors Can now take grenades, that's about it. 3 man objective holder A bit more important now to cover synapse, maybe must take even.
2. Genestealers didn't gain grenades (warriors get it but not them...logic) Broodlord got the horror but it's 130 for 1 power with 5 bodyguards. If the broodlord was like 15-20p uppgrade sure but for 60p...ugh
3. Termagaunts Cheaper but expensive biomorphs, can't pod them with devs but devs are now cheaper and they can mix guns in each brood. The best troop choice now.
4. Hormagaunt. Cheaper but the options are more expensive so if you take them with toxin sacs they are actually nefred when they really needed to be buffed. Can run a few extra inches each game.
5. Ripper swarms Little more expensive, but not much better than before. I guess they can tie up some unit that dosen't have S6 or higher.
Elites
1. Hive guard more expensive and lost 1BS, can buy a haywire blast gun with 18 range. Still our best choice for transport and flyers but the BS drop hurts them. They got better ws than our assaults MC's so Gw is doing something right. Main gun got ignore cover.
2. Lictors Cheaper, can now inflitrate and can be deployed as groups of 3. Still get's killed by (most things) but as groups if 3 they can actually do some dmg if you infiltrate them and go second.
3. Zoanthrope Lost pod, lost rulebook powers, now psyker lvl2 with 1 power locked so they get only 1 roll. Warp lance is now ap2 and they must walk up now. At least they are now only 50p.
4. Venomthrope Now give shroud and are cheaper. No longer does dangerous terrain(like marines even noticed that). This probably a must take now to give a mix of 5+ and 3+ cover save to your army. We need to practice hiding them behind our units so they can't be shot.
5. Haurspex CC monster with WS, I and attacks 3, yeah even with some cool abilitites this just won't work for a CC monster.
6. Pyrovore It's still a joke.
Fast attack
1. Shrikes they are now 5p cheaper but boneswords are now only sp3. Prime still can't join them and have the same problem as warriors.
2. Raveners Didn't get the changes they needed, they are beasts but they really need toxin sacs and be able to start with rending claws.
2.5. Red terror If you face indepentant characters that's infantry and you get them in combat, swallow hole is cool. Otherwise now this is more only if you have the model.
3. Flying rippers rippers with wings that cost more.
4. Gargoyle If blind works on each hit then it can work to cripple a unit for a turn if you get close. I rather have toxin gargs with old blinding venom. Toxin/glands more expensive...
5. Harpy Can be used to hunt infantry vs armies that don't have skyfire or decen amount of shooting. Sadly that's almost every army.
6. Crone S8 vector is nice vs flyers and light vehicles. 4 haywire shots with re-roll hits can be used vs a flyer...once. Still T5 4+ is pretty lame when a quad gun is 50p. Drool cannon is just a heavy flamer so after the the tentaclids are used the crone can't really do much, the flamer really needed to be torrent. Can work against flyer spam if you use 3.
7. Spore mines Must now deep strike then assault to do any dmg. They blow up at the start of combat as a single blast with extra S for each mine and ignore cover. Cost 5p. Problem is that they must land without mishap and then get into combat with half movement and half assault range. Would have been awesome if they exploded on impact. Maybe against orks.
Heavy support
1. Carnifex 40p cheaper and does d3 hammer of wrath hits (ap- bleh) I2 so at least they strike before fists. Options still the same but you still can customize them and use the awesome kit. They fixed 1 of the many problems with this unit anyway. Brood of 3 with 2x devs are a powerful but extremly expensive unit that need alot of support
2. Biovores +W is really nice and they now are 5p cheaper. Mines if they miss are a little better now 3 of these guys are now even better.
3. Trygon&Prime(divide them into 2 slots to make it look like you did more work gw...) slightly cheaper and the prime can now take bio artifacts. lost re-rolls but the prime can take the uniqe lashwip&sword to gain instant death and S7 with I7. Expensive and only one.
4. Mawloc 30p cheaper and now ignore cover. Not only are they made useable but are now cheaper, nice.
5. Exorcrine A bit expensive for only the gun. BS4 can be nice if enemy MC's are trying to get close to you. AP2 shooting is nice but it won't be able to reach those riptides or wraithknights that hide in the back.
6. Tyrannofex Down to normal point cost, still BS3 and rupture cannons still bad. I can see using 2 of these since T6 2+ save can be kinda hard to deal with especially if you give him catalyst or put a venomthrope behind him.
I haven't tried the new units enough and maybe some build may change my mind down the line bot for the moment this is my rating.
This I my first list ideas.
HQ
Either you go with dual flyrants or 1 flyrant + swarmlord with 3 toxin sac tyrant guards. Another is for a cheaper route you go with tyranid prime and deathleaper with the prime for you warlord and deathleaper to guide mawlocs and give the -3LD because some taudar have only 1 psyker to so give him the -3. The prime I would put in either a biovore/hive guard or venomthrope brood to tank T5 wounds with regen.
Troops
Termagaunts! either just spam termagaunts or perhaps try a tervigon to hide in the back and put out troops but I would not use more than one now because of the nerfs. 4x 20 gaunts is only 320p now and my old dual tervigons used to go for 370p so either 4-5 broods of 20 gaunts will be my new standard troop build. Not easy to kill 100 wounds with hopefully always fearless that sit in cover and holding objectives. Rest of the troops don't feel worth it. Hormagaunts could work. Since we need more synapse cover the 3 man strangler warrior brood is nice and cheap for backfield synapse&objectives.
Elites
Hive guard are still one of the best units we got vs flyers and/or transports. You are gonna want to use at least one venomthrope brood. either 1 or use a bigger one and put a prime in there to tank, remember with shroud they got 3+ cover save while standing in cover so people must have ignore cover to kill them easily. I think zoans aren't worth it since the anit-tank guns is to short range and 1 roll for support power is not good enough. Rest is kinda meh.
Fast attack
Gargoyle is nice to screen units to boos the shrouded from venomthropes. I need to test dual crone list vs flyers but I feel it is not gonna overwhelm. Spore mines if they FAQ it to destroy on impact is good point waste.
Heavy support.
Mawlocs is really nice, 2 of them dropping on top of aegis lines or troops in cover is quite nice now. Especially if you can deploy them so you get double blasts since mishap is only destroyed on 1/6, still dangerous but you get 2 blasts then. All mawlocs needed IMO was ignore cover and now they got cheaper as well. I think I will put 1-2 in every list I use swarmlord since it's the only + reserve. Could work with commando deathleaper as well (risky but fun if you can pull it off). Biovores are probably a must take just to kill enemy scoring units. so at least 1 brood. Exorcrine I need more test games with but I can work but I think you really need swarmlord for this again. 3 rolls to try and get onslaught (run&shoot) and to give pref enemy or mosnter hunter to it each turn.
I'm gonna put up some test lists in the army list section.
Don't get me wrong this codex is a mess, even more than the last one (at least in 6t rules). We probably need to buy alot more gaunts and change alot of our armies if we are going to try to adapt ot this new codex.
You can still get some fun new things that will work but It really feels like you can't build any fun themed compedetive lists.
Vanguard? yeah lictos still kinda meh and genestealers got no buffs.
Swarm? Termagaunts cheaper yes but tervigons worse, hormagaunts worse(pretty similar but not good enough), gargoyles toxin are more expensive.
Nidzilla? Yes I think nidzilla with mass amount of gaunts instead of the traditional min amount of gaunts this is the way to play.
Sadly this codex just turnes me off playing nids, so much that I'm actually feel like I don't want to spend a bunch of money to try to make this codex work when I can have so much fun building lists with my space marines. So my tyranid army will go dormant on my shelf but I will stay active here on the hive, trying to help people do something with this codex and probably still paint some of my still unpainted models. Hopefully a supplement or the rumored 7th edition will make the nids shin e a bit more but untill then I'm not giving GW any more money for tyranids.
