|
|
Post by requeim69 on Jan 11, 2014 1:22:35 GMT
Just picked it up.
Against Infantry, awesome.
Unfortunately GW is supporting flyers. If you are planning on playing tyranids, and the other player has more than one flyer, sorry bud, you lose.
I might be missing something, but you have ONE, yes ONE unit that can shoot flyers reliably.
Oops.
And it only have 4 shots. And it is strength 5. And it is haywire, so only if you roll a 6 and get a pen can you take down the flyer. Otherwise you better hope you hit with all 4 (with the new rules you will), AND he does not jink even once successfully. You will need all 4 shots to take down the average one flyer. Oh and it will cost you 155 points to do so.
There are units that have haywire, WOOT, but they are blasts, so useless against our winged competition.
So disappointed in this, you cannot imagine. Lucky I have a Necron army and starting to play GW's competition. |
|
|
|
Post by Davor on Jan 11, 2014 1:25:05 GMT
Ahh the complaint against GW but yet gives GW more money in another army.
|
|
|
|
Post by jackedup on Jan 11, 2014 2:39:17 GMT
Just picked it up.
Against Infantry, awesome.
Unfortunately GW is supporting flyers. If you are planning on playing tyranids, and the other player has more than one flyer, sorry bud, you lose.
I might be missing something, but you have ONE, yes ONE unit that can shoot flyers reliably.
Oops.
And it only have 4 shots. And it is strength 5. And it is haywire, so only if you roll a 6 and get a pen can you take down the flyer. Otherwise you better hope you hit with all 4 (with the new rules you will), AND he does not jink even once successfully. You will need all 4 shots to take down the average one flyer. Oh and it will cost you 155 points to do so.
There are units that have haywire, WOOT, but they are blasts, so useless against our winged competition.
So disappointed in this, you cannot imagine. Lucky I have a Necron army and starting to play GW's competition. Out of ALL the problems in the Codex this is the one that gets your notice?  This is like the tip of a VERY LARGE iceberg. |
|
|
|
Post by tarrasque on Jan 11, 2014 3:19:27 GMT
Just picked it up.
Against Infantry, awesome.
Unfortunately GW is supporting flyers. If you are planning on playing tyranids, and the other player has more than one flyer, sorry bud, you lose.
I might be missing something, but you have ONE, yes ONE unit that can shoot flyers reliably.
Oops.
And it only have 4 shots. And it is strength 5. And it is haywire, so only if you roll a 6 and get a pen can you take down the flyer. Otherwise you better hope you hit with all 4 (with the new rules you will), AND he does not jink even once successfully. You will need all 4 shots to take down the average one flyer. Oh and it will cost you 155 points to do so.
There are units that have haywire, WOOT, but they are blasts, so useless against our winged competition.
So disappointed in this, you cannot imagine. Lucky I have a Necron army and starting to play GW's competition. You're ignoring the Crones S8 vector strike. |
|
|
|
Post by vampiremonkey on Jan 11, 2014 3:46:38 GMT
Has anyone noticed a theme
Space Marines = goodies = great
codex
Eldar = goodies = great codex , power up
Tau = goodies = great codex , neat rules
Chaos Space Marines = baddies = nerfed
Daemons = baddies = nerf up
Tyranids = baddies = nerfed
so if we continue
Orks = baddies = nerf up
Imperial Guard = goodies = power up and or great codex
Dark Eldar = baddies = nerf up
Necrons = baddies = nerf up
nearly forgot
Grey Knights = goodies = Really great codex
If i was collecting orks and dark eldar i would be worried
Necrons as well to some extent
|
|
|
|
Post by Hive Fleet Green Locust on Jan 11, 2014 3:47:06 GMT
Both the Crone & the Harpy can kill any Flyer in the game. Especially since the Harpy can get a Str9 twin-linked gun.Everyone always seems to forget that if a Flyer has no place to land, it's worthless. SWARM AND FAN OUT. This codex has the best anti-flyer abilities (read access to tactics) than any other codex aside from Tau. ---------------- Also I see many improvements over some of the old Codex's hard match-ups. +1 Initiative on Fexes, Tervs & Tyrannos means help vs. Jaws and going before most AP2 weapons. SitW reduces Psyker LD always, not just when they take Pychic tests, so you may see Grey Knights fall back, or Daemon Princes implode after losing combat by 1. Lictors can be on the board turn 1, thus making Reserve tactics work. This opens up SOO many builds. ----------------- Another thing that bugs me (no pun intended) is how a lot of people are complaining about no access to 2+ chitin. While I admit that hurts, I remember a time when 'Nids, a biological race, and 2+ save, while Necron, a mechanical race, did not. HOW DOES THE MAKE ANY SENSE!!?!?!? Now that Necrons can get 2+ saves on their Lords and Nids only get 1 artifact and Tyrannos, both races feel more like they should. ------------------- Overall, I see a good deal of nerfs to some of the old (kind of unfluffy) competitive builds. But I see just as many buffs against their hard match-ups. vampiremonkey: I think you should check out some tournament listings, Daemons are WAAAAYYYY better then Space Marines right now. (although Marines are still a good codex) |
|
|
|
Post by losian on Jan 11, 2014 3:55:35 GMT
Both the Crone & the Harpy can kill any Flyer in the game. Especially since the Harpy can get a Str9 twin-linked gun. Everyone always seems to forget that if a Flyer has no place to land, it's worthless. SWARM AND FAN OUT. This codex has the best anti-flyer abilities (read access to tactics) than any other codex aside from Tau. ---------------- Also I see many improvements over some of the old Codex's hard match-ups. +1 Initiative on Fexes, Tervs & Tyrannos means help vs. Jaws and going before most AP2 weapons. SitW reduces Psyker LD always, not just when they take Pychic tests, so you may see Grey Knights fall back, or Daemon Princes implode after losing combat by 1. Lictors can be on the board turn 1, thus making Reserve tactics work. This opens up SOO many builds. ----------------- Another thing that bugs me (no pun intended) is how a lot of people are complaining about no access to 2+ chitin. While I admit that hurts, I remember a time when 'Nids, a biological race, and 2+ save, while Necron, a mechanical race, did not. HOW DOES THE MAKE ANY SENSE!!?!?!? Now that Necrons can get 2+ saves on their Lords and Nids only get 1 artifact and Tyrannos, both races feel more like they should. ------------------- Overall, I see a good deal of nerfs to some of the old (kind of unfluffy) competitive builds. But I see just as many buffs against their hard match-ups. vampiremonkey: I think you should check out some tournament listings, Daemons are WAAAAYYYY better then Space Marines right now. (although Marines are still a good codex) The problem is the cost of the models that can't get a 2+ any longer the vulnerability it opens up for them. Especially considering a lack of any eternal warrior/invulns. Nids have the biggest bunch of giant monsters, but they're soft to a point and there's not a single thing that can be done about it anymore. I'd argue that a creature as heavily carapaced as a tyrant/etc. is absolutely a 2+ by default, but that's just me. We can mince 'feel' all day long.  I felt that 'nids had thick armor but no invuln was fitting, if also a painful, drawback. |
|
|
|
Post by jesses on Jan 11, 2014 4:00:47 GMT
Both the Crone & the Harpy can kill any Flyer in the game. Especially since the Harpy can get a Str9 twin-linked gun. Venom Cannon fires Blasts, Blasts can't hit Flyers, Harpies can only Vector Strike flyers at S5, or buy Stinger Salvo (also S5). |
|
|
|
Post by requeim69 on Jan 11, 2014 4:12:47 GMT
Especially since the Harpy can get a Str9 twin-linked gun....Sorry no blasts against Flyers.
Agree the Crone S8 Vector Strike is great. Too bad this is the same unit that carriers the other AA capacity for the army.
Fail.
|
|
|
|
Post by gigasnail on Jan 11, 2014 4:14:52 GMT
Just picked it up.
Against Infantry, awesome.
Unfortunately GW is supporting flyers. If you are planning on playing tyranids, and the other player has more than one flyer, sorry bud, you lose.
I might be missing something, but you have ONE, yes ONE unit that can shoot flyers reliably.
Oops.
And it only have 4 shots. And it is strength 5. And it is haywire, so only if you roll a 6 and get a pen can you take down the flyer. Otherwise you better hope you hit with all 4 (with the new rules you will), AND he does not jink even once successfully. You will need all 4 shots to take down the average one flyer. Oh and it will cost you 155 points to do so.
There are units that have haywire, WOOT, but they are blasts, so useless against our winged competition.
So disappointed in this, you cannot imagine. Lucky I have a Necron army and starting to play GW's competition. you got a couple of things out of whack: -S8 VS on the crone is very good for killing other flyers, problem is positioning. taking 2 flyrants and 2 crones will help make sure you have that positioning. this is probably going to be the go-to build/core of units in the new codex. -crone isn't our only flyer killer. flyrants are very good at it also. as stated earlier, don't take one, take two dakka flyrants and two crones. -exocrine puts out high volume of S7 AP2 fire, enough where statistically it's going to ping at least once per volley. two of these are probably good to take as well. -dakka fexes put out a lot of TL S6, but it's only at medium range and we lost the precision pod drop. good news is they got cheaper. i think exocrine is better overall, but dakka fexes are probably going to be common enough. -you kill flyers with the crone by either the S8 VS, or glancing them to death with the missiles. two crones can fire two missiles each per turn, that's pretty much lock on a flyer right there. a VS does d3+1 S8 hits, one VS by itself is likely to drop a flyer. you are only rarely (luck) going to take a vehicle out with a pen with this codex. we don't have the high S low AP volume to do so reliably. didn't have it last codex, either. flyer destruction is one of the few areas we got better at in the new codex. |
|
|
|
Post by Nightmare20 on Jan 11, 2014 4:18:57 GMT
Derp. Derpity derp. Derp derp herpa derp. Blasts can't hit flyers and anything worth chasing away in the Grey Knight codex is fearless and/or leadership 10. On a side note we did get warpblast on a flyer and triple shots with max zoans too. |
|
|
|
Post by vampiremonkey on Jan 11, 2014 4:44:01 GMT
Hive fleet green Locust : Ok i stand corrected just i know some Daemon players that are little bit peeved over the lack of EW rule i think . I thought that EW was fluffy for Daemons because well they -are- Daemons. Anyway thanks for the heads up prediction is a hit and miss thing |
|
|
|
Post by Hive Fleet Green Locust on Jan 11, 2014 4:58:14 GMT
Good catch on the Venom cannons...everyone but me. My mind must have been reading with 4th ed glasses on.
I still think the codex has more anti-flyer options than most books.
---------------------
And Grey Knight units that aren't Fearless will NOT be LD 10, but LD 6-7 against SitW. 98% of their Codex are Psykers
On topic, we got more shooting options, including some Haywire stuff. 6th is a shooting game afterall, so that is something, even if it is a little unfluffy for 'Nids to sit back and shoot.
Fexes can get fleet = awesome
|
|
|
|
Post by jackedup on Jan 11, 2014 5:10:55 GMT
Good catch on the Venom cannons...everyone but me. My mind must have been reading with 4th ed glasses on. I still think the codex has more anti-flyer options than most books. --------------------- And Grey Knight units that aren't Fearless will NOT be LD 10, but LD 6-7 against SitW. 98% of their Codex are Psykers What anti-flyer options are these, pray tell? |
|
|
|
Post by Hive Fleet Green Locust on Jan 11, 2014 5:17:37 GMT
Crones, Dakkaflyrants, most of the high str weapons like Rupture Cannons & Impalers are multi-shot, which is still worth shooting at Flyers if you have no other option.
The big one for me, is the number of models and/or the number of large base models.
One of my armys is Flyer spam Necrons. If I played against any well played 'Nid army, I would get 1 turn to shoot with each flyer before there would be no where to land and still see anything to shoot at.
I know what beats my army, and massed board coverage scars me more than Quad-guns. All you have to do is pre-measure to see where I can land, then put a unit there.
I played a game against an all bike Marine army once, and the ONLY flyer he killed was on that had been stunned and had to land on his models. He had a lot less models than any Tyranid player can field.
------------
Another anti-flyer option is to ignore them. When I play my Daemons, I only have 1 Soul grinder and 1 FMC to deal with enemy Flyers, but even then I will tend to ignore them because often it will be better for my to kill off all his ground targets.
The only Flyer in the game that is truly a pain is the Heldrake, but since that is the only unit keeping CSM in the competitive world, I'll let them have there fun.
|
|
I felt that 'nids had thick armor but no invuln was fitting, if also a painful, drawback.
