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Post by neomangas on Jan 9, 2014 23:02:59 GMT
Its really weird but as far as I can tell Raveners and TYranid Shrikes have the exact same stat profile... apart from shrikes have synapse which really annoys me because it practically makes raveners pointless and I love the look of raveners more! Shrikes can exchange their devour for rending which is what a ravener would also do with his (please do not swear) talons gaining them both an additional attack for the same cost of 5 points... and then shrikes have the options of then taking toxics, flesh hooks and glands! which raveners dont have access to! on top of being a synapse provider and never having the dim witted mind of hitting itself... why would you ever take raveners over shrikes now? because of the red terror? because they are beasts? shrikes now have the chance of actually having more attacks then a ravener with hammer of wraith! oh yeah raveners do have one initiative over shrikes and thats about it.... wow Yeah, I mentioned this the other day. You can use the Raveners bodies for Shrikes as there are no biomorphs for wings listed under the shrike profile. They are just jump infantry. Assume that they "jump" or "burrow" 12" a turn. thats great! I still get to use my ravener models lol the new warrior kit dont come with wings does it? I think warrior heavy list may work, we will see... its good cause I already have a lot of warriors and raveners just because I like the look of them! shrouded from venomthropes may help them survive and some supporting fire form an exorcine (though I dont wanna fund GW's new models just yet for pissing me off ever so, probably get it from aliexpress for cheap later in the months) great thing about the exorcine is It will make people wanna prioritize getting rid of it while the warriors sneak up the board, maybe even use the Mawloc for distraction (always preferred the look of Mawlocs to Trygons) big question is what about anti air, after seeing the Crones stats I am not very impressed (as expected) it has only 4 missiles and can only shoot one per turn meaning it can at best get rid of the helldrake in 3 turns but also needs LOS while flying around it! so very likely to loose line of sight per other turn -___- and then it has its vector strike which also means if it crosses over the helldrake it no longer has LOS to it to be able to fire a missle so looks like flyrant again with its new and improved BS4!
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Post by chuckles on Jan 9, 2014 23:04:11 GMT
People are still living in fantasy land if they think Carnifex are good for anything other than a devourer platform, even with the pt reduction and HoW bump. Maybe if they hadn't nerfed scytals... but even then, too slow. D3 S9 I10 hits on a devourer platform sounds good to me. Which can bounce off Guardian armour... Your definition of CC "punch" is obviously different to mine.
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Post by topaxygourouni on Jan 9, 2014 23:21:59 GMT
D3 S9 I10 hits on a devourer platform sounds good to me. Which can bounce off Guardian armour... Your definition of CC "punch" is obviously different to mine. And can as easy give you 2 dead terminators just because it may. I really can't understand all your hate. It is free hits at high strength. You did not have them before , you have them now. It is as simple as that actually. I have lost a tervigon to freaking mandiblaster hits. If they give me extra free hits, I will take them. I will not whine about it. Seriously the people in this forum are getting rattled up really easy. I take it most people here haven't played much WHFB. In fantasy I play Beastmen, Tomb kings and Wood Elves. That's the bottom 3 armies by a huge margin. Still I play fun games and manage to win a lot. And now I get in this forum and someone claims to start rewriting the codex 2 whole days before the codex even becomes available for sale! I mean, maybe we should give it a try and see how it goes? I don't know what kind of expectations people had for this book, but being pessimistic before we even have a chance to play the army itself is seriously demoralizing without valid reason. I see the bright side. I see 4pt termas, 5 pt hormas, 8 pt devilgants, 120 pt fexes, 140 pt mawlocs, 175 pt tyrrano (does the new tyrranofex gain the haywire electro grubs? If so it will be awsome for a front line moving fortress). I see slightly cheaper flyrantalso. In short, no, there is not a single outrageous thing, there is no one ring to rule them all. BUT there is so many cheap units that we can actually stream the field with carapace. Now we have more or less the same shooting as before, we are on average a faster army (fleet everywhere, bounding leap), we are cheap enough that we can field large number of chaff and still have points left for large beasts. We are also a bit more survivable army (due to possible target overload and venomthropes). We got a little worse in hth, but seriously when we got into hth last book it was a serious overkill. I think we will be killing in hth just the same, only now we have more numbers and speed to do so. We now have the numbers to more or less ignore the opponent's air units. Also worth noticing that the hive crone can actually kill practically any enemy flyer in a single turn (VS + 2 hull points from tenticlings). Yes it will die easily, but it will kill other air units just as easily. Whining in here before the book even hits the shelves will gain you absolutely nothing.
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Post by vortexdr on Jan 9, 2014 23:26:07 GMT
Which can bounce off Guardian armour... Your definition of CC "punch" is obviously different to mine. And can as easy give you 2 dead terminators just because it may. I really can't understand all your hate. It is free hits at high strength. You did not have them before , you have them now. It is as simple as that actually. I have lost a tervigon to freaking mandiblaster hits. If they give me extra free hits, I will take them. I will not whine about it. Seriously the people in this forum are getting rattled up really easy. I take it most people here haven't played much WHFB. In fantasy I play Beastmen, Tomb kings and Wood Elves. That's the bottom 3 armies by a huge margin. Still I play fun games and manage to win a lot. And now I get in this forum and someone claims to start rewriting the codex 2 whole days before the codex even becomes available for sale! I mean, maybe we should give it a try and see how it goes? I don't know what kind of expectations people had for this book, but being pessimistic before we even have a chance to play the army itself is seriously demoralizing without valid reason. I see the bright side. I see 4pt termas, 5 pt hormas, 8 pt devilgants, 120 pt fexes, 140 pt mawlocs, 175 pt tyrrano (does the new tyrranofex gain the haywire electro grubs? If so it will be awsome for a front line moving fortress). I see slightly cheaper flyrantalso. In short, no, there is not a single outrageous thing, there is no one ring to rule them all. BUT there is so many cheap units that we can actually stream the field with carapace. Now we have more or less the same shooting as before, we are on average a faster army (fleet everywhere, bounding leap), we are cheap enough that we can field large number of chaff and still have points left for large beasts. We are also a bit more survivable army (due to possible target overload and venomthropes). We got a little worse in hth, but seriously when we got into hth last book it was a serious overkill. I think we will be killing in hth just the same, only now we have more numbers and speed to do so. We now have the numbers to more or less ignore the opponent's air units. Also worth noticing that the hive crone can actually kill practically any enemy flyer in a single turn (VS + 2 hull points from tenticlings). Yes it will die easily, but it will kill other air units just as easily. Whining in here before the book even hits the shelves will gain you absolutely nothing. Survivability?? Ohhh really?? Sooo somehow shrouded makes up for losing access to the BRB powers? In which world do you live in?
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Post by gozolve on Jan 9, 2014 23:35:04 GMT
"In fantasy I play Beastmen, Tomb kings and Wood Elves. That's the bottom 3 armies by a huge margin. Still I play fun games and manage to win a lot."
irrelevant. unless the point your trying to make is that your taste in bad armies should some how be shared by us.
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Post by topaxygourouni on Jan 9, 2014 23:51:02 GMT
BrB powers were not THAT crazy in terms of survival. Endurance is on par or even sub par to the new catalyst. Relentless is useless to us, IWND never really procced for me once and you can bless 2 units at once. Iron arm was cool, but against eldar (bladestorm), poison and lascannons was more or less irellevant. Other than these two, there wasn't really any other survival power in the book available for us.
Yes, having shrouded venoms is better than not having shrouded venoms, which actually makes my point for being more survivable. Just because the wave serpent is broken doesn't mean the venomthrope is bad. But that's not all about it. Being a lot cheaper means we get to field a lot more units (and a lot more monsters). This also means survivability because it results to target oversaturation.
@ gozolve: I don't want to make any kind of point with my WHFB experience, and I don't really care if you share any of my tastes. All I am trying to say is that it is pointless and clearly wrong to cry weak before any one of us has played a single game with the army. Play some games before you wipe off everythin as unplayable.
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Post by gozolve on Jan 10, 2014 0:01:45 GMT
@ gozolve: I don't want to make any kind of point with my WHFB experience, and I don't really care if you share any of my tastes. All I am trying to say is that it is pointless and clearly wrong to cry weak before any one of us has played a single game with the army. Play some games before you wipe off everythin as unplayable. I hate to say the same thing twice but if your past WHFB experience had no point then why bring it up. and I do not agree with you that we can not make a judgement call on something because we have no direct experience of it. I personally have never been shot in the face. by your argument I can not say it would be a (please do not swear) thing to happen to me, because I've only seen examples of it and haven't tried it.
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Post by topaxygourouni on Jan 10, 2014 0:07:45 GMT
Yes, because comparing getting shot in the face and playing a board game makes perfect sense.
I'm not saying don't make judgements (even thought you really shouldn't without experimenting a lot first, especially in something with as many parameters as a brand new warhammer codex). I say don't cry over it. In the last 8-10 hours this forum has become the largest whinefest I have ever seen. And mind you, I have been around all the forums of the weak armies I play in WHFB. Even Wodd Elf forums who haven't seen a new codex since 2005 don't whine so much. See why I mention fantasy?
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Post by vortexdr on Jan 10, 2014 0:12:06 GMT
Yes, because comparing getting shot in the face and playing a board game makes perfect sense. I'm not saying don't make judgements (even thought you really shouldn't without experimenting a lot first, especially in something with as many parameters as a brand new warhammer codex). I say don't cry over it. In the last 8-10 hours this forum has become the largest whinefest I have ever seen. And mind you, I have been around all the forums of the weak armies I play in WHFB. Even Wodd Elf forums who haven't seen a new codex since 2005 don't whine so much. See why I mention fantasy? Then leave this forum? As if people cant see what a slap in the face this codex is....
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Post by topaxygourouni on Jan 10, 2014 0:18:49 GMT
No thank you I don't think I will. Let people see whatever they want to see. If they feel the codex is a face slap and feel frustrated about it they are perfectly free to switch armies at will. After all, there is no point in playing the game if you don't have fun while playing, is there?
I am quite befuddled though. I have a fair share of games with my tyranids so far, and even though I was never on the top of the ladder, I have won quite many games, sometimes even against heavy serpent+ warp spider eldar forces. Now I seem to be getting a codex that is better than the previous one I have (still, not saying it is better than eldar/tau, but it is clearly better than our previous one). I can only imagine performing better than I previously did.
For example, I will probably welcome all the new haywire love we get, especially against stuff like 15-tank Imperial guard armies.
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Post by chuckles on Jan 10, 2014 0:31:59 GMT
No thank you I don't think I will. Let people see whatever they want to see. If they feel the codex is a face slap and feel frustrated about it they are perfectly free to switch armies at will. After all, there is no point in playing the game if you don't have fun while playing, is there? I am quite befuddled though. I have a fair share of games with my tyranids so far, and even though I was never on the top of the ladder, I have won quite many games, sometimes even against heavy serpent+ warp spider eldar forces. Now I seem to be getting a codex that is better than the previous one I have (still, not saying it is better than eldar/tau, but it is clearly better than our previous one). I can only imagine performing better than I previously did. For example, I will probably welcome all the new haywire love we get, especially against stuff like 15-tank Imperial guard armies. Er what? Better how?
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Post by gigasnail on Jan 10, 2014 0:42:15 GMT
d3 S10 AP- hits isn't enough to statistically kill one marine.
if you think the new codex is better than the old one, i dunno what to tell you.
there's a difference between 'ok we have new rules, let's look for good combos' and realizing 'oh hey this unit was a little OP, but it got a 30 point price increase, probably justified. oh, and it was also nerfed to near un-usability and doesn't do anything it used to. it was also the linchpin of the codex, and there is nothing to replace it with. that's...really not good.'
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Post by topaxygourouni on Jan 10, 2014 1:19:52 GMT
Let's see the units new vs old: 1. Dakka Flyrant got 30 pts cheaper, same stats. 2. Tervi got worse and got 30 pts up. 3. Trygon prime, old one eye, nobody cares, nobody used them anyways. 4. Deathleaper got much better. Swarmlord slightly worse.
5. Hormagaunts are cheaper and better (+3" run). 6. Termagants are cheaper and can mix match guns at will. 7. Warriors are the same with more options. 8. Genestealers are better (ap5 attacks). 9. Ripper swarms got 2 pts up.
10. Hive guards 5 pts up with opt for bonus haywire if you like. I consider that better than before. 11. Venomthropes got better and cheaper. 12. pyrovores got better (even though they are still worthless, I will give you that). 13. Lictors got cheaper and got infiltrate. 14. Haruspex + exocrine we did not have before, better now that we do. 15. Zoanthrope: Practically the same, now has one more spell to boot. Perhaps more easy to deny all of the attack at once. Unknown point cost. Overall pretty much the same as before.
16. Gargoyles. Unknown rules. 17. Harpy: pretty much the same? 18. Hive crone. Pretty good and we did not have it before. 19. Raveners. More or less the same as before. now with bonus ap5. 20. Shrikes. More or less the same. 21. Spore mines. So much better it's not even funny. 22. Sky slashers. Who cares?
23. Biovores. Much better with the new mines. 24. Carnifex. 120 pts fex. Period. 25. Mawloc. 30 pts less, much better deep strike. 26. Trygon. More or less the same. Lost rerolls, got slightly cheaper. 27. Tyrranofex. Outrageously better. 75 pts less, torrent flamer.
Lost units: Parasite: Who cares? Doom: That hurt indeed.
Biomorphs: Scything, crushing got worse. Rending claws + adrenal got better. Toxin same. Got new bonus biomorphs, even though they are meh. still more options than the old book. Warlord traits: (not sure if you can still pick from the brb) One more tree of choice than the previous book. Powers: With the exception of Iron Arm, the new powers seem stornger than the old ones.
So yeah, overall the new book is way better than the old one. It's just not about tervigon any more. I can live with that.
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Post by gozolve on Jan 10, 2014 1:26:14 GMT
HAHA you know all this and I just remembered the NID HUNTER DATASLATE is coming out this month HAHAHA special little nails in the coffin.
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Post by sunnyrobert on Jan 10, 2014 1:28:12 GMT
Does getting old one eye allow carnifexs to be troop choices?
Just asking..
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