The two headed eagle has landed!

[infornography]

The Space marine codex is now officially released. Unfortunately I won't be able to get my copy until Tuesday. Anyone pick theirs up today? Any surprises?

[leeroy1986]

Looking across other forums the general consensus seems that Centurions are expensive devastators basically. 250 points for 5 guys, I know they have a 2+ save with missile and hurricane bolters. They can upgrade to twin-linked lascannons and stuff so slightly better than Obliterators, but bloody hell that's expensive! However I can see them causing Tyranids problems!

Oh and that Hunter thing is 70 Points it's basically a cheap Quadgun on a Rhino from what I understand. Like you I made the error of ordering my book online should have gone to town to pick it up! Ah wells bring on Tuesday! lol.

[gigasnail]

no deepstrike, no invul save, no flexibility in weapons output on the spot. can't really see them as better than oblits.

[WestRider]

Overall, I really like the Dex, at least on first read-through. I think the different Chapter Tactics are going to result in a pretty good variety of different viable Builds. White Scars, Ultramarines, Imperial Fists, and Salamanders all appeal to me.

Some random notes:

Legion of the Damned: cheaper, and now capable of bringing a Relentless, Ignores Cover Plasma Cannon ;D

If you don't go too overboard with them, Vanguard Vets are basically what normal Assault Squads should be to me.

I think Grav is going to have its day in the sun, especially on Centurions, because it's really good against the proliferation of very tough MCs that we're currently seeing (Riptides & WraithKnights). Might stick around anyhow, because basically everything it's not good against is pretty susceptible to basic Bolter fire, so it makes a Tac Squad into a pretty good all-rounder. Salvo means it's frighteningly short-ranged for anyone but the Centurions, tho, which I think is the real balance there. I suspect it will mostly die out on Tacs/SternGuard eventually.

The AA Tanks have potential, and are nice and cheap, but without Interceptor, they're definitely susceptible to getting gunned down before the Flyers show up. They can move on and fire at basically full effect, tho, so perhaps Reserving them as a counter will work well, if unreliably.

None of the Chapter Relics seem to be complete garbage, tho several of them are pretty spendy for what you get.

I was a little worried by the possibilities of the return of Ceramite Plating, but it's just for the Flyers, so no real big deal.

The Warlord Table is OK. Probably worth using instead of the Rulebook tables in most cases, but not an automatic choice.

Tigurius seems to be the real standout among the Special Characters. Re-rolls on Reserves, Re-rolls when choosing his Psychic Powers, Re-Rolls on his Psychic Tests, access to all 5 core Disciplines, and he comes with one of the better Warlord Traits. All at a very reasonable cost. He's basically what Eldrad and Ahriman should have been.

[Sensei]

I don't have the codex myself, so this is based on what I've heard other people say/what I've read about the codex on the internet so far.

I think Centurians are going to be big, mainly because they seem to be the big things being pushed. They have some pretty awesome stats and some good upgrades and can be tailored to CC or range fire support. However, as they are high points costs, I don't anticipate any long term use of full units or maxing out their slots. My guess is they will gain widespread use while people are excited about them, but eventually be toned down to one unit, more than likely not at full strength.

They have the potential to cause a lot of problems for our MCs. I can see them hurting a lot of MCs for the first bit, and wouldn't be surprised to see a shift towards using fewer MCs, at least for a short time. That said, for their cost, they are extremely good at taking out heavily armoured targets, but they are quite vulnerable to hordes with low saves or none at all. Throw any large unit at them and I see them going down hard, especially because of no invulnerable.

I think the Hunter/Stalker is pretty similar; very good at what it does, but not a whole lot of flexibility. The AA capabilities of both sound pretty awesome (what are these shenanigans about getting a change to hit the turn after a miss?) but if there are no flyers in range/on the board, they become largely obsolete.

Overall, I think the codex looks pretty good and fairly balanced. They have some nice options with the chapter tactics that look like they will give some unique, but not game breaking bonuses. I think the new units add some valuable tools, but again they don't seem to be overpowered. They are very good at what they do, but have vulnerabilities that can be exploited to overcome them.

[WestRider]

Sept 8, 2013 0:37:47 GMT Sensei said:

I think the Hunter/Stalker is pretty similar; very good at what it does, but not a whole lot of flexibility. The AA capabilities of both sound pretty awesome (what are these shenanigans about getting a change to hit the turn after a miss?) but if there are no flyers in range/on the board, they become largely obsolete.

They aren't actually all that great at what they do. The Stalker is basically another Quad Gun, and when you run the math, those are kind of underwhelming. The Hunter has pretty good odds of stripping a Hull Point, between Armourbane and Savant Lock, but at one shot, is unlikely to actually drop anything, even with AP2.

That said, its Savant Lock rule is one of my favorites in the new Dex, just for cool factor: The Missile doesn't just get a second chance the next Turn, it gets to keep rolling every Turn until it hits or the target leaves the board. Needs a 5+ when it's seeking like that, but always hits Rear Armour.

So it's pretty good at messing with Flyers, even if its actual odds of downing one are pretty lame.

Oh, and on Centurions: I expect to see them in a lot of Armies, but I doubt you'll often see them spammed. Those things are expensive, like Land Raider expensive for a Squad of 3 with Grav. Taking more than one Squad is basically asking to get swarmed down.

[gigasnail]

the new vehicles are av12 and don't have interceptor. they're trash, a delaying tactic at best (i.e. oh gee, he has AA tanks. my fliers kill them first, THEN burninate your doods instead of just burninating your doods).

[infornography]

I tend to agree. If they were, as the rumors first stated, 2 guns that got 4 auto cannon shots each and not at different targets at BS2 then I could rationalize taking multiple on the theory that at least one will be burned down before they get to shoot at anything but they still have a solid chance to take down a flyer. But as they are, if I take 2, that will be how many I need to shoot anything down, but I could never expect both to live long enough to do that.

I will probably just resort to my 5th edition strategy of quad gun or storm talon and a storm raven. I was hoping for a cheaper solution that felt reliable, but they just aren't.

[WestRider]

Their one saving grace is that they only have one Weapon, so they can move on the board and still fire at full effect. So you can keep them in Reserves (Hi there, Tigurius!) and try bring them on after opposing Flyers are in. To me, that brings them at least back up to "mediocre".

[leeroy1986]

Got my book now.
All Space Marine chapters are filth pure filth can see us having nothing but problems with or without Tervigons tbh.

[tanagra]

Sept 9, 2013 20:48:54 GMT leeroy1986 said:

Got my book now.
All Space Marine chapters are filth pure filth can see us having nothing but problems with or without Tervigons tbh.

I was afraid of this. Most of the players I've had the best luck in beating so far were space Marines. This does not bode well for me at the next tournament.

[Bot]

Okay so let me get this right. For 280 pts you can get three Centurion Devastators with a Missile Launcher and Twin-linked lascannon pr model that they can shoot simultaneously? At the cost of 4 Chaos Obliterators? It's quite some nasty fire power, but perhaps 280pts is a little too much? What do you guys think?

[gigasnail]

no overwatch. tarpitted by a dozen free termagants for entire game. what's not to love?

[infornography]

las cannons are not the weapon that they have that worries me. Take a look at what they can do to our MCs with those grav cannons.

I do think they are overcosted for an all comers list, but there is no finer MC hunter in the game now. Plus they are quite effective against heavy armor especially if they have missile launchers on top of the grav cannons.

Loaded into a transport of some kind, they are all but guaranteed one kill of their choice. We will have to be very careful to make sure that if they get one kill, we are in a position to get them stuck in melee before they get another, and another.

Yes they are expensive, but they are also the single biggest threat to our MCs on the board. I will be interested to see how things shake out with these guys.

[Anggul]

I may actually be tempted to Warp Lance Centurions. That should be amusing.