I need help with Chaos Space Marines!

[Great Googly Moogly]

Long time lurker here. I feel a bit weird that my first post isn't nid-related, but oh well. I like this community, and I think this is still the best place to turn to for even non-nid help. I'm planning on starting chaos, but because I'm not rolling in cash I do want to try a game with them before I drop tonnes of money. I've been looking through my new codex a bit, trying to decide what sort of army I want. I've decided that I strongly dislike nurgle, and while I do like Khorne and Tzeentch, I'd like to focus my army on Slaanesh. However, I'm not entirely sure where to start. I know that I do want a Sorcerer and a Chaos Lord at my disposal, though not necessarily in the same list all the time. Part of that is fluff-based. I also want to avoid... what I guess can be called "standard" vehicles as much as possible, in that I still like the Daemon Engines and Hellbrutes and such, as they look different, they look like Chaos. I don't want a bunch of predators and such, I have my Guard army for normal-looking vehicles.

I need a couple of things, though. Firstly, I'd like some help making a 1.5k list for this weekend. My opponents will be Tau and Eldar (or Dark Eldar). They both have fliers. I'd also like as an aside some recommendations for building my army up. Specifically, recommendations on certain units. Bikes/Noise Marines/Possessed/AllThatGoodChaoticStuff! Thanks in advance, guys, I really appreciate the help!

[commandersasha]

I can't offer help personally, as my only CSM experience is playing AGAINST Nurgle!
I would highly recommend joining BolterAnd Chainsword, which is for all Marine armies, naughty and nice, but is also a well-moderated forum like this one, without the flamers and trolls that some of the other big forums have.
From an ill-informed point of view, if you are going to follow Slaanesh, I'd look to maximise on the ranged sonic weapons, which are good, use dirge casters on your vehicles (Grr, I hate them!), and be aware that the extra points that you pay for Slaanesh powers are to help in combat, but that 6th edition is very shooting-orientated. Tyranids, and also my Dark Eldar, who both excel at combat, have had a much harder time since the new edition. It's all about the guns, baby!

[snowdaman]

Noise marines can be really good in conjunction a slannesh powers as the one power makes sonic weapons have higher str value on the shooting attacks. As well as sonic weapons ignore cover as far as i remember. forge and mauler fiends can be good. Heldrake is really good. And havoc unit with flakk can take out most flyers easy.

Id suggest a couple units of csm. Then a unit or two of noise marines. Then fiends, drakes, havoc to taste. Maybe some raptors if u want since slannesh has a higher int.

Ill have to wait until i get home to give u any more specific advice

Sent from my GT-I9100M using proboards

[infornography]

Slannesh is fun. Noise Marines are one of the best cults to turn into troops because they are by their nature a static gunline.

If you can get a sorcerer or prince to toss them endurance they get extra scary though since they can shoot at full fury on the move with that.

You probably want to use cultists and terminators for your melee front.

Anti air options are heldrake with the autocannon, quad gun, and flakk missiles. Flakk missiles are horribly overpriced. If you are playing where forgeworld options are allowed you can also use the hell blade, hell talon, and/or chaos Storm Eagle. All have their good sides and bad sides.

If you are playing at 1750+ points I would probably go with a lord and a sorcerer. Have the sorcerer hang out with the noise marines tossing buffs on them from the slannesh set and biomancy. Have the lord hang out with the terminators or cultists. If you do take Terminators avoid the tempatation to load them down with extras. Basic chaos terminators are a bargain with their power weapons. Mix up the power weapons but just roll with the power weapons and you are good. I generally consider axes and maces to be where it is at for them.

To round out your force if you have points left, grab a template wielding heldrake or two and/or forgefiends.

Hope this helps.

[Great Googly Moogly]

Thanks for the help, guys. For objective taking, I'm guessing CSM squads in rhinos go grab the distant objectives while Troop Noise Marines hold the objectives in my deployment? Are the Chaos Terminators and Cultists meant to be running at the enemy to draw fire and eventually assault, or are they meant to be a counter-assault unit to deal with enemy assault units that get too close? Thoughts on Lucius the Eternal?

Also, what upgrades should I throw onto the Lord and the Sorcerer? And how big should Noise Marine squads be/should they all have sonic blasters? Finally, about the Dirge Casters: How would it interact with Tau's supporting fire? Would units within 6'' also not be able to fire supporting fire? And would a unit that could not itself overwatch be supported by a unit if the supporting unit was not in range of the dirge caster?

EDIT: Did some more looking around and found one answer to a question. I removed the question, but added another!

[infornography]

For objective taking you can use large cultist blobs or basic CSM squads with chainswords.

Cultists and terminators are intended to be putting pressure on the enemy and shredding ranged focused units in melee/dealing with enemy deathstars one way or the other. Either tarpit them with the cultists or fight them with the terminators.

I like 11 man noise marine squads as it lets you take 2 blastmasters. And yes, the rest should carry sonic blasters.

I like to put on the 4+ invuln saves on my leaders. I also like to put my lord on a bike or steed with a power mace so he has the increased toughness and ID protection that comes with it or increased number of attacks. Everything else on the lord is just fun extras.

The sorcerer I like to equip with the 4+ invuln, as many psyker levels as I can put on him, and a spell familiar.

[snowdaman]

interesting question about the supporting fire. Will have to look into it, i know supporting fire says that they can fire overwatch as if they are the target of the charge.

And dirge casters says enemy units within 6" can't overwatch so i would probably rule it that if the supporting fire unit it out of the 6" dirge caster then they can, but if they are within they can't.

as for the anti air options i dont think the autocannon on a hell drake is worth it. The flamer is so much betters, expecially against anyone who likes cover saves and has 3+ or worse armour.

yes flakk is expensive points wise but it cheaper to up grade the unit then it is to buy a defience line and quad gun. Now if your going to get the defince line anyways for your cultist then ok get the quad gun.

I always liked to do mass troops, like 3 units of csm with two melts guns each in rhinos, big blob of cultists for back field, a unit of elites (i used khorne but you could use the noise marines) and then support options, like the hell drake, maybe a couple hell brutes or forge fiends or what you have points for after your hqs. But i personally never took chaos terminators, but thats because i also have grey knights and i play them terminator heavy so i wanted mass MEQ in my chaos army.

[infornography]

Actually, 4 flakk missile launcher upgrades (from bolters) costs the same number of points as an aegis defense line with a quad gun. Same strength and AP but you get it twin linked, able to be fired by any infantry in your army, and it has interceptor.

The quad gun is straight up the better buy.

The heldrake with the autocannon is less powerful than the baleflamer, but it serves a different role. It is a very capable flyer hunter. Since it shoots like a monstrous creature (silly FAQ) it can easily get rear armor on other flyers after vector striking them. Plus it is still decent against ground targets.

The Baleflamer is stupid powerful, but it doesn't hit air. I do recommend if you plan to get a heldrake for anti air, you should also get at least one with the bale flamer for dedicated anti ground, but making it an anti air unit isn't a bad buy. Ignoring forgeworld options I would say the best bet for 1750+ point games is two heldrakes, one with each gun, and an aegis line with a quad gun so you can swat flyers efficiently with minimal point expenditure.

And I think snowdaman is right about the dirge caster, that looks like how it shakes out.

[gigasnail]

a unit of AC or ML havoks sitting behind a defense line w/ quadgun is a nice starting firebase. or noise marines.

[kingfisher773]

Ok, I'm just gonna lay down some knowledge on some units you may want to take or avoid.

Starting off with the most popular choice of this codex, Heldrakes, these are one of the best anti-infantry that chaos has to offer with the whole flying and the strength 6 armor penetration 3 torrent flamer (yes this means a definite take of the baleflamer) at 170 points it is the perfect choice for hunting enemy troops or just infantry.

Now for one of the more useless units, possessed, coming in at 26 points a model for almost standard stat line, random buffs and all melee attacks despite being able to take Icon of Flames (buff for all bolter weapons in the squad)... They are not worth the point value or the elite slot, just like in the last codex!! , and the only time you would take it is either if you are playing really fluffy Word Bearers, really like the models (they are pretty cool, but the bitz are good for conversions and just adding to normal models), cannon fodder or you just have the points and want to try something new.

Back on to the good choices I'm just gonna get the 'exalted warriors' out of the way -since they are pretty good- so i'll start off with Noise Marines. (this is listed from most viable to least in my opinion)
Noise Marines are one of the best if not then the best Elite choice and possibly Troops choice you can take (just as an in general look at them). They are one of the best shooting units that chaos has and once again, they are pretty much made for anti-infantry, with their Sonic Blasters and Blast Masters they become deadly and great against most infantry/horde armies.
On to Plague Marines. These boil in festered bags of meat are tough as hell and are really viable as Troops. How ever they aren't really the best Elites, unless you're going with a Nurgle themed list. But it doesn't change the fact that they can take a beating and can do pretty well against monstrous creatures with the poisons weapons they have.
Now to Thousand Sons. They are pretty much there for anti-Space Marine fire power and that's pretty much all there is to it.
Finally, Bezerkers. The close combat experts in the chaos codex. They aren't as viable now as they were last edition since close combat is more for the horde armies (i.e. Nids, orks, ect) in this edition really.

That's all I'll do tonight, kinda tired and there is still a bit to cover. You can message me if you have any questions or want me to post some more suggestions/over view of the Chaos Space Marines codex.

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