Rules Query: charging thru terrain

[commandersasha]

Yesterday's game threw up a problem, and we didn't know how to solve it:
His Ork boys were 9" away after over watch from my clustered Gaunts, in a gap between a solid wall, and a patch of area terrain. The gap was 4" wide. His Boys were clustered to, but none in the terrain.
I rolled 6,6 for my charge.
I moved the first 4 Gaunts across clear terrain, into B2B with his first row.
Gaunt 5, now, by the charging rules, was obliged to go into the terrain to reach the next unengaged Boy, on the 2nd row; he could do so with my 12" charge range, but then he would have to go through terrain. I rolled a third dice, which was a 1.
If I take the two lowest dice for my charge, I get 7; now NONE of the Gaunts ought to be in range!
Should I have rolled 3 in the first place? Or should I have elected to only go across open ground, thus Gaunt 5 onwards don't engage available enemies?

The issue is, I didn't know whether I would be obliged to enter difficult terrain until after rolling the charge!

Help!

[fragile]

This is a rules paradox. It can happen that you roll good enough on a charge that it will take your troops into DT, where a minimum roll would not. You can either play it as a normal charge where you are not allowed to move any of your troops into DT, because you did not roll 3d6, or you can play it that if any model could possibly get into DT with a 12" charge, then you have to roll 3d6 to start.

There is no hard RAW to support this either way (its debated). Its best to just work it out with your opponent.

[infornography]

My local gaming group has decided that this RAW with a strict interpretation means if it is possible that you will have have to charge through terrain to get to the enemy in the most direct route, you are obligated to and have to roll 3d6 from the get go. It really REALLY sucks for us. BADLY. I really hope they faq this not to be so pants on head stupid but I don't expect it.

[WestRider]

I thought it had been FAQed, but I can't find it now. Maybe I'm just remembering a Tournament Ruling or something.

Anyhow, the only way I can see to make what's written there work, without adding in something significantly changing that's not even implied in the original text, is to rule that if the straight-line path for any of your Models goes through Difficult Terrain on a maxed Charge Roll, you have to take the Terrain.

[kirchoff]

The way we interpreted the rules for this is with my friends is that you draw an imaginary line from every one of your guants to the targeted squads CLOSEST model in the most direct route. If any of those lines cross through difficult terrain then you must roll 3 dice. If not then roll 2 dice, and if you end up in terrain because you rolled a higher number to reach the opponent, then what happens is that you become slowed to initiative 1 when fighting in close combat. I would give page numbers to help support this but I do not have my rulebook with me atm.

I don't think it really said closest model but that would make sense. I'll post again on it later after re-reading the rules on it. I'm also thinking it was an FAQ that I remember.

[commandersasha]

I do like it when we have a head-scratcher, and it turns out to be impossible to answer: I feel much less stupid!
In the end we decided to treat it as similar to focussed fire: I didn't enter the terrain, and lost attacks but not initiative. We reasoned that I wouldn't have even tried if I was going to go at Init 1 against a mob of boys!

Thanks for the replies guys ;-)

[charon]

I thought that if you have the Move Through Cover special rule and charged through terrain you rolled the 3d6 and took the highest two

[coredump]

As Fragile points out.... the rules don't quite work here.

The best solution I have heard is to roll three dice, 2 red and 1 black (or whatever colors), if the 2 red ones make you go through terrain,then you play like you rolled all three. And yeah, it kinda sucks for assaulting.

Westriders solution has the benefit of being the most straightforward; but it can also lead to situations where you have almost completely clear terrain, the enemy is only 7" away, but *if* you roll a 12, you will need to go through terrain.... to me it makes no sense to have to roll 3d6 just on that off chance.

[Space is pretty big]

You know. I get it when obscure rules clash with other less important rules. Doom is a good example...

But close combat is so... fundamental to the game.

I look at threads like this an it reminds me why, even though I still build models, I haven't played this game in years... If the creators are not going to have the self respect to avoid mistakes this basic, I have no interest in playing their game...

I guess this is why 40k is popular though, it's become the Michael Bay of table top games. It has so much flash, but the underlying structure is put together with duct tape and spit.

[WestRider]

Dec 16, 2012 0:10:25 GMT coredump said:

The best solution I have heard is to roll three dice, 2 red and 1 black (or whatever colors), if the 2 red ones make you go through terrain,then you play like you rolled all three. And yeah, it kinda sucks for assaulting.

I think this is possibly the best, but it does involve adding significantly to what's actually written on Pg.22. An excellent House Rule, but not really supportable through what's in the book.

[fragile]

This can actually go a few ways. You can roll bad enough to miss terrain, roll average to run into terrain and roll really well to completely avoid the terrain. It needs a house rule all the way around.

[atrocity]

You ALWAYS have to take the shortest route to the enemy. If that makes you go through terrain with even a single model in the unit (which it often does) the whole unit is I1.

It's kinda funny to see this being a problem, I've never noticed it before. Roll 2D6 and then (before moving) check if one of the models goes through terrain on that move, if they do, roll another D6 and add it so it becomes a difficult terrain charge (or always roll diff charge with a different color dice as suggested above).

So EVEN if you roll VERY long, you still have to take the SHORTEST route to the enemy. Fragile said you can roll really well to avoid terrain and I must say I cannot see a situation where that is possible.

[Jabberwocky]

The problem with shortest route, is it changes depending on whether your other models have blocked your path already or been able to engage all the models available.

You may have to move around your own model and into terrain. You may engage all models early and be free to just shuffle up your other models without moving into the terrain.

The problem is you won't know for certain until you start moving things.

My group usually play it like coredump. Do your 2d6 roll and if it ends up hitting terrain or looking like it will, add the extra d6 into the mix and work out the new charge range.

Sometimes though a 6" will succeed but a 7" pushes you into terrain, making you fail the charge entirely or just being short of the terrain, making the whole system seem ridiculous.

I think I will put forward the 'focus fire' idea, where models that don't move through cover by choice, don't get to fight. I think this seems fair.

[seanster3000]

The way I play it now is: I would premesure the most direct route with the closest to closest models if at any point I'd have to go through difficult terrain I would the take into effect the rules for rolling my charge through difficult terrain, but if the closest to closest did not pass through difficult terrain, but another model (which MUST take the shortest route) did I would move the full distance rolled but the whole squad would be at I 1.

[fragile]

Dec 16, 2012 11:27:00 GMT atrocity said:

You ALWAYS have to take the shortest route to the enemy. If that makes you go through terrain with even a single model in the unit (which it often does) the whole unit is I1.

It's kinda funny to see this being a problem, I've never noticed it before. Roll 2D6 and then (before moving) check if one of the models goes through terrain on that move, if they do, roll another D6 and add it so it becomes a difficult terrain charge (or always roll diff charge with a different color dice as suggested above).

So EVEN if you roll VERY long, you still have to take the SHORTEST route to the enemy. Fragile said you can roll really well to avoid terrain and I must say I cannot see a situation where that is possible.

Only the initial charger must move the "shortest distance". The rest of the units can move in any fashion they like as long as they follow the rules for the basing enemies/coherency. Therefore a charging model can run around a terrain rather than through it (other than initial charger).