Lo,S question

[maugrim]

Here's a situation that happened tonight, and I've got a timing question:

Death Company assaults Tactical Squad (7 guys left, including Sarge). On init 4, Power Weapons achieve 7 wounds, non-Power weapons achieve 13 wounds. Opponent opts to use the Power Weapon Pool first. One wound gets Allocated to each model, include the Sarge.

Question: Can the Sarge use Look Out, Sir?

Point in favor - Lo,S activates when the wounds are being Allocated, not when they are being compared to the remaining Wounds characteristic.

Point against - All of the models which could do Lo,S are already losing their last wound...

So logically (GW? Logical?) they can't. But rules-wise we thought they could - from our possibly flawed understanding.

Thoughts?

We thought yes, and the Lo,S roll was successful, and then the Sarge ate 13 regular wounds failing a bunch of the saves.

[Geneva]

If it works for Imperial Guard Bodyguards I can't see why it wouldn't work for LO,S. Then again, the IG codex does specifically say that bodyguards can be allocated up to two wounds with Look Out, Argh! so the mechanic is slightly different. They aren't exactly perfect parallels.

RAW, I'd say yes they can. Fluffwise, you could always say that the soldier used his last ounce of strength to jump in the way of the oncoming attack.

[coredump]

Question doesn't apply, since your premise is wrong.

You will never "allocate one wound to each model".

DC charge, get a bazillion attacks, and almost that many wounds.
The marines all have the same save, so you roll those first. Obviously they all 'fail' against power weapons.
Now the marine player picks one model in base contact with the DC and allocates an unsaved wound. It dies.
repeat.
Once he decides to allocate one to the Sgt. the sgt may LOS if he wants. That will kill another marine.
Then you have to keep allocating to the Sgt until the Sgt is dead or you are out of wounds.
The Sgt can keep trying to LOS (but with a 4+....)

So, in this case, it means it doesn't matter if the Sgt LOS or not, all that will do is change the order; regardless they will all die.

Does that make sense?


All saves the same: Roll all saves, Allocate Unsaved Wound, LOS or not, roll FnP (If all models have the same FnP, you can roll all FnP when you roll the saves)

Mixed saves: Allocate Wound, LOS or not, roll saves, roll FnP...

The key is that LOS triggers immediately on the *allocation*.

So *no* taking a save and then LOS

[maugrim]

Its a standard tac squad, so no mixed saves. So all the saves were "rolled" at the same time and failed.

I think the confusion occured when we tried to "Fast Dice" it and apply all 7 wounds at the same time (like it suggests to speed things up), when it should have been done one at a time. If it had been done the "normal" way then the problem wouldn't have occured. Since they were all in B2B contact, the order in which they died was up to me (as they were all the "closest" model). The Sarge would've been Allocated an Unsaved Wound, Lo,Sed it, then because that means there would be one less Marine to take an Unsaved Wound from the Pool - he would have eventually been Allocated another wound.

Hrm. Makes Combat Shields a semi-useful upgrade now.

[coredump]

The Sarge would've been Allocated an Unsaved Wound, Lo,Sed it, then because that means there would be one less Marine to take an Unsaved Wound from the Pool - he would have eventually been Allocated another wound.

Sort of.... once you first allocate a wound to the Sgt. You need to keep allocating to him until he dies or you run out of wounds.
He can keep trying to LOS....

[Devil's Advocate]

Jul 11, 2012 18:15:27 GMT coredump said:

The Sarge would've been Allocated an Unsaved Wound, Lo,Sed it, then because that means there would be one less Marine to take an Unsaved Wound from the Pool - he would have eventually been Allocated another wound.

Sort of.... once you first allocate a wound to the Sgt. You need to keep allocating to him until he dies or you run out of wounds.
He can keep trying to LOS....

ADDITIONALLY, in assault, the owning player gets to choose who is removed when models are in base contact;

-- if there are 7 of your guys, they are all in base contact with an opponent and they receive 7 AP 3 wounds, unless you have an invulnerable save, they are all dead.

-- if there are 7 of your guys, they are all in base contact with an opponent and they receive 13 AP - wounds, you roll 13 armor saves and say you fail 4. YOU CHOOSE which of those 4 in base contact are removed, preserving the sergeant.

LO,S does not come into play at all.


IF ON THE OTHER HAND:

-- if there are 8 of your guys, and 7 (including Sgt) are in base contact with an opponent and they receive 7 AP 3 wounds, your wound allocation options are thus:

A. Simply remove all 7 models in base contact. they are the closest.
B. Remove 6 models in base contact, preserving the Sgt, and roll LO,S for him. if he makes it, remove the 8th model that isn't in base contact.

make sense?