Smoke Launchers

[maugrim]

Here is another stupid mistake written into the rules by GW.

In 5th edition, Smoke Launchers were triggered during the Movement Phase. This cleared up any confusion about what was smoked, what wasn't and what could and couldn't shoot during the following Shooting Phase.

Not any longer. In 6th vehicles pop Smoke during the Shooting Phase (pg 87). So whats the problem?

Transports.

A unit inside a Transport can fire its weapons from the Firepoints (pg 78) as long as the vehicle didn't move Cruising Speed and hasn't used its Smoke Launchers. A vehicle uses its Smoke Launchers instead of moving Flat Out or firing its own weapons.

So what happens if the passengers fire, *then* the vehicle uses its Smoke Launchers?

In addition, passengers can not fire if the Vehicle moves Flat Out. Same question - what happens if the passengers fire, *then* the vehicle moves Flat Out?

Nothing in the rules RAW-wise to stop either one of those abuses, even though both are obviously anti-RAI.

[WestRider]

It doesn't say they can't fire if the Vehicle has already moved Flat Out or used Smoke Launchers, it says they can't if it does during that Turn. It's poor wording, but the use of present tense means that it is broad enough to make the actions mutually exclusive.

[maugrim]

Hunh? Pg 78 - "[Passengers] cannot fire if the vehicle moves Flat Out or uses smoke launchers that turn."
Pg 72 - "A vehicle can elect to move Flat Out instead of firing in the Shooting phase, immediately moving up to 6"..."
Pg 87 - "Once per game, instead of shooting or moving Flat Out (or running in the case of Walkers), a vehicle with smoke launchers can trigger them." and "The vehicle may not fire any of it weapons in the same turn as it sued smoke launchers, but counts as obscured in the next enemy Shooting phase, recieing a 5+ cover save."

So... By RAI - no, they shouldn't be able to fire, or if they have already then the vehicle should be barred from going Flat Out or Smoking. But by RAW the passengers can fire, if they do so *before* the Vehicle decides to either move Flat Out or launch Smoke.

Another point: Can vehicles with PotMS still fire a single weapon if the vehicle uses its smoke launchers (5th, no - 6th ?)

[coredump]

But you still can't.

Rule 78 says it can't' be done on the same turn.
If the passengers fire, and then you move flat out.... the rule on p78 has been broken.

If p78 said "can't shoot after moving flat out" then it would be a problem, but there is no time dependency given in the rule.

[maugrim]

True - no time dependancy on the rule. And I agree with your interpretation - but there will be idiots out there which will do the following:

1) Neither vehicle nor passengers have shot yet.
2) Passengers shoot.
3) Vehicle pops Smoke (or goes Flat Out).

By RAW, they can do that. Yes, if you tried to do 2 after 3, it would be illegal, but there is nothing stating that you can't do 3 after 2.

And yes, by doing 3 after 2, you make 2 illegal - but there is "precendent". If you shoot unit A at unit B, then move a vehicle Flat Out inbetween them, unit A no longer has LOS on unit B so they can shoot them anymore... does that invalidate the shooting that happened previously in the Phase because its now illegal? No, its a timing issue.

[coredump]

But the LoS rule applies *when* you are shooting, it does not say
"you can't shoot at a unit that is out of LoS during the same turn"


If they try and do both, show them the rule, which is now broken; and explain that they can't break any rules....

Regardless of which order they do it, it breaks a rule.