Advice for Tau?

[Col]

So since this is a Tyranid board and all, I obv. understand there being no Tau tactica, but I still would like an answer to this question.

I'm wondering if anyone has any advice for Tau dealing with Space Marine Vanguard Veterans? I find they have a tendency of ripping me apart. He'll deepstrike right beside whatever unit he wants to assault (generally my Battlesuits or Broadsides), assault them, and... well. We know how Tau are in assault.

Since Vanguard can also bring Power weapons as well, the Battlesuit's 3+ save isn't useful at all, and according to my opponent, Vanguard get 4 attacks each on the charge, so five of them pack about 20 attacks. Too much for my Shield Drones to deal with or absorb, so he just tends to slice my Battlesuits to pieces.

Any tips on dealing with his Vanguard with Tau?

[Stonewall]

I'm not all that experienced with Tau, so I don't know how well this would work, but if this kept happening to my tyranids, I would give the problem unit an escort of some sort. For example, you could park a small unit of kroot around the broadsides, or a small unit of gun drones that can keep up with the crisis team. It probably isn't very effective in terms of points usage, but the idea is to have the shield unit die in the first round of CC, then just try shooting his guys to death in the next turn.
I don't have the codex on me, so I don't know the points comparison between Vanguard Vets and the proposed shields, and there's probably an easy way around it that would effectively neutralize the shield units. So, just an idea.

[Xenos and Proud]

Stonewall is correct. 'Bubblewrapping' is a well used and effective tactic and a staple of modern Tau armies. Use Kroot to surround your important units like Broadsides and Crisis suits and the Vanguard Vets will be neutered of the power as they will cut up the kroot and be open to a devestating counter attack by your surviving suits, prefferably plasma equipped.

P.S. Vanguard do have 4 attacks on charge, 2 base, 1 for double armed and 1 for charging.

[cookies]

The answer: Fire warrior spam. S5 small arms fire can deal with almost anything, have a semi-circle of them someplace on the board that has mostly open terrain in front of it, for easier shooting. Just make the semicircle big enough to fit all your things in (I suggest going from inside to outside deploying) but not big enough to allow deepstrikers in. Your fire warriors blast at whatever you need to blast at, and your broadsides/hammerheads deal with tanks. Arrange it like the tyranid onion so that everything gets a coversave, even the vehicles. (Fire warriors/kroot on outside, battlesuits/vespid in middle, tanks on inside). Then their anti-vehicle will be half as effective, and you can still shoot unhindered.

[icki]

I'll log into here for, (I think), the 3rd time ever if it means helping the Greater Good!

The most reliable way to stop any deepstrikers are Kroot loops. Your two or three units of minimum sized Kroot units, (You ARE taking them, right?), can be used to push deep strikers back since there should will be less weapons on your opponents side of the table that you need cover from. If you're doing this, try to be more practical than putting 10 Kroot in a circle around just one squad of Broadsides. Use the terrain on your side of the table, and protect more than one squad with each loop, like you would usually do when they're giving your Battlesuits a cover save from heavy weapons. Your opponent will have no choice but to assault your Kroot, which means they're not assaulting your Battlesuits.

Also, you seem to be forgetting the golden rule for Tau in combat. Make sure you die as quickly as possible. If you're lucky enough to survive one round of combat, you sure as hell won't survive two. If that's the case, then those Vanguard have just wiped two of your units off the board with no chance of any resistance. Any points you spent in trying to survive that first round of combat have just helped your opponent win.

If your opponent is playing a squad of Vanguard Veterans, you should be a happy man. Make sure they assault your Kroot, (Who will die quickly), leaving your Battlesuits in rapid fire range now that the Kroot stood in front of them have gone.Those very expensive squads of 'Veterans' die just as quickly to Plasma as normal Marines.

Any points your opponent spends on extra combat ability are wasted since your army is designed to die in combat.

Of course, still take some Shield and Gun Drones to protect, or just die, against Lascannons and Missile Launchers.

[icki]

Jan 28, 2012 23:34:03 GMT cookies said:

The answer: Fire warrior spam. S5 small arms fire can deal with almost anything, have a semi-circle of them someplace on the board that has mostly open terrain in front of it, for easier shooting. Just make the semicircle big enough to fit all your things in (I suggest going from inside to outside deploying) but not big enough to allow deepstrikers in. Your fire warriors blast at whatever you need to blast at, and your broadsides/hammerheads deal with tanks. Arrange it like the tyranid onion so that everything gets a coversave, even the vehicles. (Fire warriors/kroot on outside, battlesuits/vespid in middle, tanks on inside). Then their anti-vehicle will be half as effective, and you can still shoot unhindered.

12 BS5 rapid firing Fire Warriors will kill 4.5 Marines a turn. They suck. That's 253 points, (Don't forget the four Pathfinders and the mandatory Devilfish w/ Disruption Pod), to kill 4.5 Marines. The remains of that squad will charge into your lines and do what it was going to do before you shot it.

Unless your playing against a horde, Fireknives are better, more points efficient, have a wider range of targets, (S7 vs transports) and can jump back behind your Kroot squad to deny your opponent the charge, (You'll be jumping in front to deny cover saves).

Your vehicles don't need cover, they have Disruption Pods. You'll only ever not be using it when you've turbo-boosted your Piranhas up to block your opponents transports.

Never, ever take Vespid.

[nidzy]

Also remember that the "heroic intervention" rule only works if the vanguard vets are assaulting into an already existing assault. This means that if you can keep your opponent away from you otherwise, they have to just deepstrike in and stand there like everybody else. The vanguard are also absurdly expensive as they have to pay for their jetpacks and when you start throwing relic blades and such around willy nilly they really add up fast. This means that once you deal with the threat you have generally dealt a sizable blow to their army.

Also, it certainly doesn't HAVE to be plasma you are shooting at them (though it would be the most effective). Tau have plenty of weight of fire to wipe out the 3+ on the vanguard vets. A burst cannon missile pod set up on a group of crisis suits with some markerlight support should whittle the squad down enough for something else to finish them off

[Col]

Huh. Well the answers here would explain one reason I have a lot of trouble. I use Farsight in a Plasmasuit army, so I literally am not allowed to take Kroot.

Also remember that the "heroic intervention" rule only works if the vanguard vets are assaulting into an already existing assault.

I... did not know this. And I don't think my opponent does either. Ever since he got his Vanguard he's insisted that they can just DS and assault. If that's not true.... yeesh, I've lost a LOT of Devilgants to that Deepstrike assault.

[nidzy]

I don't have my codex in front of me but I am positive that the rule is called "heroic intervention" and that they can only assault if they arrive and are within 6 inches of a unit of their's already in assault, the fluff being that they are showing up when needed most to wreck shop. It can be hard to win sometimes when your opponent is a CHEATER...

thats why my trygons are toughness 7 with a 2+ save and my hive tyrant regenerates on a 3 plus...

[romorini]

There is no such stipulation for Heroic intervention. You declare the heroic intervention before rolling scatter, and you exchange acting in the shooting phase for acting in the assault phase.

[coredump]

Few things.
First, I love that Nidzy is so quick to label someone a "CHEATER" when he doesn't know what he is talking about rules-wise. There is no such stipulation in the rules.

Second, realize this is an expensive unit. If they all have power weapons, you are talking 235pts for a 5-pack; thats more than terminators cost.

Last, lets review the rules for VVs. They can only use HI if they pay the points for jump packs. So they can't DS in via drop pod. He must declare the HI before rolling for DS scatter. They can't move or Run or shoot, so they have to land within 6" of their target. Since they scatter as normal, they can Mishap. DSing into terrain means dangerous terrain tests.

So you have a very expensive unit, that has a pretty good chance of scattering out of range, and a smaller, but noteworthy, chance of mishapping.

[Psychichobo]

Vanguard Vets are very expensive for what they do indeed, most players write them off as soon as they see the points cost section. To that end, Kroot should be a decent expendable shield to take the hits and possibly dish a few back before fleeing and allowing you to finish them off comfortably.

[gauntinator]

Kroot shield walls work great for almost anything like that. They give you enough time to get the expensive units out of the way. What's great is they'll usually die, leaving the vanguard out in the open for you to shoot.

[Col]

Are there any tips besides using a Kroot wall? As I mentioned above, I run Farsight as my HQ, so I cannot take Kroot.

[swarmlord123]

Sovling the problem with the veterans: Battlesuit suicide bomb thing. I used it with my Tau army when my friends decided to assault me with terminators...BOOM! But this is just my advice.