Abaddon the Despoiler; Success or Failure?

[lonelictor]

This is basically the thread to discuss whether the Black Crusades, or Abaddon himself, is a success or failure? There was a debate about this on DakkaDakka and considering this forum is probably better for civilized debate, I decided to start a similar thread here.

Personally, I think that most of the Black Crusades are successes. Each one seems to have a purpose in undermining the Imperium. For example the 1st Black Crusade recovered Drachnyen (an extremely powerful Daemon blade that Abaddon uses) and showed that Chaos was still alive despite it being driven back to the Eye of Terror. The 12th Crusade recovered two Blackstone Fortresses and Typhus unleashed a ton of new diseases upon the Imperium. The 13th Crusade has conquered 70% of Cadia and it isn't over yet.

[vk]

Unyuufex loves Abbadon.

But my friend said he failed all them crusades.

[Major Chrispy]

Abbadon Fluff wise: Failue, seriously. His master died when he ws near him. The his master was revived (Horus is who i am refering to) as a clone, only to die to abbadon. And even greater self relisation of his failure, the Sons of Horus chapter was turned into the black legion as a self sign of failure.

Game wise: Useless for his points, underpowered, and anyone who swears by him is obviously using him wrong (not really that last part, but i just watched the Chaos Vs Tyranid Apocolypse game on MWG and the chaos player cheated out the (cough) with him, abbadon can't kill a barbed hieredule in 1 vs 1 combat )

[Geneva]

Gamewise, he's actually pretty nasty. He can go toe-to-toe with just about anything outside of Apocalypse and can carve up entire squads single-handedly.

Fluffwise.... He is the chosen son of Chaos but, as /tg/ takes great pleasure in pointing out, he has the worst running track record of any Chaos Lord his age in terms of victory and defeat. Not a great title to hold.

[robomummy]

I actually have fluff for my chaos army were the daemon prince broke off from abbadons black crusades thinking he was too weak for failing to destroy the imperium 12 previous times.

[kingfisher773]

In the since of the black crusade, it was somewhat of a success getting through the defenses all the way to earth. Abaddon fluff wise, he failed chaos in the end by after the death of Horus the great lord of all evil (not including malal, necrons and dark eldar) making the full force retreat back into the eye of terror....in all honesty they could of defeated the remaining imperial forces with ease. game wise, well my local GW gave someone a prize for defeating abaddon (by his own daemon sword Drach'nyen).

[Hunger]

Abaddon's crusades are all part of the master plan - in his most recent incursions he has acquired a couple of blackstone fortresses, weakened Cadia and destroyed some of the pylons holding the Eye in check. You don't think these are his overall goals do you? They're stepping stones to a greater purpose - individual parts of his grand plan to cast down the Emperor and destroy Mankind. The destruction of Terra and the Imperium can wait another 10,000 years if necessary - time is of no concern in the Eye of Terror. Abaddon is the chosen of Chaos - any one of the crusades could have seen him elevated to the status of a Daemon Prince, but the Gods have a plan for his life. He is a pawn on Tzeentch's regicide board, and he will be played when the time is right.

[vk]

Jul 13, 2011 14:31:53 GMT Hunger said:

Abaddon's crusades are all part of the master plan - in his most recent incursions he has acquired a couple of blackstone fortresses, weakened Cadia and destroyed some of the pylons holding the Eye in check. You don't think these are his overall goals do you? They're stepping stones to a greater purpose - individual parts of his grand plan to cast down the Emperor and destroy Mankind. The destruction of Terra and the Imperium can wait another 10,000 years if necessary - time is of no concern in the Eye of Terror. Abaddon is the chosen of Chaos - any one of the crusades could have seen him elevated to the status of a Daemon Prince, but the Gods have a plan for his life. He is a pawn on Tzeentch's regicide board, and he will be played when the time is right.

UNLESS, Matt Ward decides to make Ultramarines go beat Chaos....

I'm new, but I think he might actually try that....

[Psychichobo]

Eh, he's... not that great at the whole crusade thing. He's pretty badass, but is better on the field slayin' up stuff rather that actually planning.

Asdrubael Vect, for example, really shows the guy up. I don't think anything's ever really gone wrong for Vect...

@blood Genesis: Not seen that match, but how did he cheat exactly? Abby is pretty capable of dropping a Hierodule with a bit of luck...

[carnogaunt]

Abaddon's power comes from being a great politician. Only he could have organized the crusades. He isn't the greatest commander in 40k, but considering the amount of resistance he faced, he did pretty well.

Also note that Chaos Space Marines are very difficult to replace, and suffering high casualties at any point would pretty much defeat Abaddon indefinitely.

[Hunger]

^ This is a good point - Abaddon's great strength lies in his ability to unite followers of the Four Powers. He is not Kharn the Betrayer, mindlessly assaulting the gates of Cadia every time he has an army. He plots and schemes like all good villains do, brooding over his plans in the Planetkiller's war room. His conquests are about setting up the endame, not simply causing damage because he can, and much of his work is done within the Eye, cementing alliances and vanquishing those who will not side with his cause.

[1deadcop]

im my eyes he was a failure from the start. Chaos needs not such a leader, he is more like the steward of gondor, he let all that power go to his fat head. chaos is better off with out him.

[kingfisher773]

It's a funny thing that you may kill him with an instent kill weapon or S10 since the gods do not faver him enough to become a eternal warrior (hint to how daemonhood shall kick him is the ass)

[Psychichobo]

He IS an Eternal Warrior. Hence why he'd rip a Heirophant a new one.

Abby may have all the tactical acumen of a drunken Ork, but he'll pretty much obliterate anything in a 1 on 1 combat.

[Geneva]

Abaddon isn't actually tactically inept on any level. He's accomplished a helluva lot from one crusade to the next and has managed to grow his power substantially over the last millenia. Something incredibly difficult for the Traitor Legions to do.

And let's not forget he was a personal advisor to Horus himself. He just hasn't managed anything decisive just yet.