Confused about CC Vs Vehicles

[Xenos and Proud]

Yesterday while playing against Tau with my Eldar we came upon a sticky situation.

My friends Hammerhead moved 12" then was immobilised then assaulted by my farseer on bike. His tank moved 12" meaning I hit on 6s but was immobilised so I auto-hit? Which is it?

[maugrim]

It is an unclear point in the rules. One spot says 6s, the other says auto-hit. There isn't an easy answer.

[dirkspair]

you auto hit it. a vehicle being immobilized is a condition that is specifically listed in the to hit chart. it would not be necessary to list that condition if it it was supposed to be hit according to its speed the last turn.
(so a stunned vehicle is hit on a 6 if it moved enough last turn, even it is temporary immobilized. the condition "stunned" is not specifically mentioned in the chart)

edit: and things that happen in the shooting phase and the assault phase do NOT happen at the same time, if they did, then ( for example) a zoanthrope shooting at a vehicle would have to take into consideration the location of of any units assaulting the vehicle later on for purposes of granting cover to the vehicle. therefore, by the time the 3 angry carnifexes arrive to tear it apart, the zoanthrope already has turned the vehicle into an immobile hunk of metal, granting the fexen auto hits.

[WestRider]

The Rules do actually clearly and explicitly say both that you hit automatically AND that you need 6s. It's a bit quantum.

The general Ruling is that you hit automatically.

[Xenos and Proud]

So is this just a house rule thing as I really think you should auto-hit but my friend is a rules fanatic and I will need some evidence to help against winning this argument.

Cause the way I see it (which I tried to explain) was that it moved then crashed/stopped so is not moving when I assault it in the next phase. The immobilised overrides the movement.

We have agreed that I auto-hit Drop Pods when they deepstrike so it is similar so I can argue that case.

[Geneva]

While there is no clear definition, if a vehicle is immobilised I think it's safe to assume it's stopped moving. So logically you should hit automatically.

However this is 40k. Logic is never a solid basis in this game but at least it favors one side and not the other.

[hundkex]

Isn't there somewhere something that reads along the lines that "if a vehicle is immobilized, it counts as not having moved in it's last turn", or something. Don't have the energy to dig the BGB up right now, though...

[Space is pretty big]

Jun 5, 2010 21:01:32 GMT hundkex said:

Isn't there somewhere something that reads along the lines that "if a vehicle is immobilized, it counts as not having moved in it's last turn", or something. Don't have the energy to dig the BGB up right now, though...

Might be in the BRB FAQ, if only I wasn't so lazy right now... ( -.-)

[orkblasta]

I'm not sure about this but don't the rules say that if a skimmer is immobilized and moved in the last turn, it crashes and counts as wrecked. I'm not sure about that one, I don't own a copy of the current rules, (still got my 4th edition book).

[WestRider]

orkblasta: That only applies to Fast Skimmers moving more than 12".

This is the third time I've been through this argument. The Rules, including the FAQs, are not just inconclusive, they are actively contradictory. There is no resolution to be had by just trying to sort out the RAW.

There is some evidence, principally stemming from the fact that with everything else in 40K, the consequences are applied immediately, that the RAI is for the Vehicle to be hit Automatically. But that guess at Designer's Intent is the best you're going to get.

[Biowraith]

Best thing in cases such as these is to roll a dice, or have a house rule that you agree before the game.

[Jason]

With walkers, if they are immobilized by the start of the assault phase then grenades hit them on WS instead of 6s. I suppose if a vehicle is immobilized by the assault phase, you auto hit it in combat.

[Xenos and Proud]

I think we'll just say 4s to hit. It's a compromise.