need help defeating Nidzilla with marines

[orkblasta]

My friend and I have been doing battles for years I use an Ultramarine marine army he uses nids. We have been very even according to who wins and loses, but recently he upgraded his army to a nidzilla list and I haven't won a single battle against him how do I defeat him I need a new strategy. Any ideas?

Both my army and his reach around 4000pts. My army is well balanced.

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[insanious]

A 4000 point Sm army should rock nids... where are all your termies with T-hammers and SS in land raiders? Why don't you run a 6 Land Raider list (3 HS and 3 dedicated transport for terminators) Watch his 8 MC's die by turn 3...

[orkblasta]

I'm afraid I don't have that many terminators only a single squad and their not close combat but I do have a landraider crusader and it does wonders but still he always seems to win. Heres my army list:

3 HQ
. Calgar and honor guard
. Libraian
. Captain and command squad

6 Troops
. 10 man tactical squad
. 10 man tactical squad
. 6 man scout squad
. 5 man scout squad and sgt telion
. 5 man combat squad
. 6 man combat squad

2 Dedicated transports
. Rhino
. Razorback

3 Fast Attack
. 10 man assault squad
. 4 man bike squad and an assault bike
. 1 land speeder

4 Elites
. 5 man terminator squad (Black Reach)
. Dreadnaught (Black Reach)
. Dreadnaught
. Veterans

3 Heavy Support
. Predator
. 5 man devastator squad
. Landraider crusader
. sgt Chronos


Fully upgraded reaches the point value of 4102 pts. My friends nids reach an amount slightly higher.

[The DeathJester]

your doomed, I suggest you do a small 2000 point game where you have enough troops to fit the limit.

[braytac]

dude that is not a balanced list you have there.
but suggest to play smaller games they tend to be more balanced that way.
furter more keep to a point limit en make an army list so your points match up.
dont use cronos he sucks and is way! to expensive for what he does.
personlay would shy away from calgar he is just a huge point sink as are the honour guard.
telion can be nice but keep him in a bigger squad and don't forget to give scouts a ML ore HB
use the captain without a comand squad en let him join the termintaros in your landraider (give him a relic blade so he can do somthing against tyrants en carnies)
use one of your tacticel 5 man squads to boost your devastators up to 10 the best weapon for them is the ML with frag for the small stuf and krak for the big stuf.
if you play nits a lot it is wise to put plasmaguns on your bikers and a multie melta on the atack bike.
this wil give you verry mobile 24 inch range shots on S7-8 ap 1-2 perfect for carni hunters
and use your razorback as a rhino so both of your squads are mobile (i think flamer missil launcher and powerfist are the best way to go for your tac squads.
dont forget to take extra armour on your landraider (just in case) but dont bother to take it on the rhinos.

and thats about it.

[orkblasta]

Thanks for the help guys I'm also going to my local games workshop store any ideas on what to add to my army? I already think I know what I want but what do you guys think.

My bike squad is made up of plasma guns and the attack bike has a multi melta also most of the units in my army have plasma guns and my land speeder has an AS and HS. My dreadnaught has an AS and CC arm with HF.

Should I use my librarian more if I take the 'quickening' and 'gate of infinity' psychic abilities he can move 24' and has Initiative 10 perfect for attacking MCs don't you think.

[dudemakupa]

Ok there is only ONE way to beat tyranid with space marines. No tanks, just hordes of marines and dreadnaughts. That is the only way you can kill them. Tanks just take up too many points and can be made usless by a few venom cannon shots.

[coredump]

I am not an SM expert, but I can't see how those models get to be 4K points.

Try making a 2K point list, and only use the wargear that is effective, not everything you possibly can.

Tanks can be pretty darn effective on Nids.

[ryshi]

I agree with coredump

If that's 4k points you're making everything in your list as expensive as possible which is really not strategic at all and is much closer to shooting yourself in the foot repeatedly with a nailgun.

Against nidzilla lists your strongest tools are plasma on your troops choices(as many as you can in a squad).

Landraiders are a must just to be used as las cannon platforms. Tyranid saves are garbage, and las cannons are basically a guaranteed shaved off wound provided you hit(and if it's at a warp field tyrant/zoanthrope 1/6 shots won't work).

Also landraiders are essential to transport terminators. A single squad of close combat terminators with lets say......dual lightening claws, and an upgrade character can beat the snot out of almost any tyranid monstrous creature with utter ease.

If you're having problems with genestealers in his list, take a few heavy bolters.

If he's using a hive tyrant, keep your troops away from them. However, carnifex's can be readily assaulted by your troops. Even close combat carnifex's will on average put out 5 attacks which even fewer will hit. If you give all your sergeants a power fist and allocate wounds properly, you will at least hit the fex for a single wound(probably more than one) and greatly slow down the advance of any carnifex.

[Devil's Advocate]

When I play nids with MCs, my greatest worries are these, in order: (more or less)

-Assault terminators with Thunderhammers: Causing power weapon wounds that force my MC initiatives to 1 is exceedingly painful. My response is to avoid them and shoot them down where possible - So be sure to load them in something that is not easily shot down, like a land raider. Deepstriking them is useless unless they can assault immediately from deployment.

-Las heavy tanks or large Devastator squads: Both can be problematic for tyranids to bring down because their range protects them from assault and they can absorb a fair amount of punishment before losing effectiveness. My response to them is to watch my line of sight so as to reduce and limit incoming fire - So be sure to place your lascannons on either mobile platforms or give them wide angles of fire.

-Anything that carries an assault cannon (or massed assault cannons) Terminators, Speeders, etc: Throw enough rending assault cannon power at a target and it's gonna go down. My response to them is to shoot down speeders or in the case of terminators, to bury them in assault. Any assault is good as long as they're not shooting their assault weapons. -So your goal is to keep out of reach of the enemy, or screen your shooting units with troops.

-Bikes with Plasma/melta weapons: Fast, with decent range and quality Strength and AP. Good players can dodge around the enemy units. My response is to swamp them with hgaunts or genestealers as quickly as I can - So be sure to distract or eliminate threatening units as much as possible.

Most important is to stay focused on fire discipline. Remember that even bolters can put wounds on MCs, but be sure to send as much fire power as necessary to put units down. Tyranids don't flee, they keep fighting until they're dead. Always keep an eye on which MCs have how many wounds, and try to anticipate where his assault units are going to be on the next turn.

[orkblasta]

Wow great ideas all this is really going to help me in my next couple of games. Thanks.

[warbossrannon13]

Ally in a Grey Knight Grandmaster terminator person. His force weapon is outdated and kills outright, which means it even kills nids under synapse. At least, that's how I remember it. Yeah, outdated codex ftw!

[dirkspair]

i really like sternguard against nids, they got ammo that can hurt anything...stealers lurking in cover? dragon breath rounds...warriors with EC? kraken rounds...elite fex bearing down on you? hell fire rounds...
their combi weapons are very cheap and when they are in cover they will all strike with 2 attacks against anything un-flesh hooky, makes a lot of nid players reconsider their feeder tendrils on their stealers.

[Reaper]

Orkblasta, you thought i wouldn't be checking the hive while i was on vacation. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

Everyone else, keep the advice coming. I enjoy it when games are equall. The more ideas orkblasta has, the more challenging it will be for me.

But on a side note, we have only played 2 games of me using nidzilla. The first was a 1750 game. He sunk alot of points into calgar and his honor gaurd but didn't manage to do much with him. He also had at least 2 turns of really, really bad shooting. The second game was a 875 game. Ok, i shouldn't have used 4 MCs and 2 groups of genestealers but i just couldn't help myself. (I just picked up 8 new monsterous creatures on ebay for $119.00.)

Anyway, look foward to our next battle Orkblasta!

[ryshi]

lol @ reaper.

Awww now he's probably going to anticipate your anti-heavy beasty capabilities and go swarm on you.....or maybe thats what he wants you to think.....LE GASP