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Post by Psychodrake on Aug 9, 2008 14:49:04 GMT
Totally, anything can be achieved with some patience. Even if you class yourself as a terrible painter, take the time and you could go pro in no time.
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Post by Scab on Aug 9, 2008 16:15:29 GMT
Totally, anything can be achieved with some patience. Even if you class yourself as a terrible painter, take the time and you could go pro in no time. I utmost agree. Practice does make perfect. CoolMiniOrNot people often bug me for several reasons: They score a paintjob based on purely artistic principles, and not the physics of reality. For example, someone will get a bunch of 10's because they are well known professional painters (so essentially, a picture of their feces would get a good score), or because they followed the "rules" of color composition and consistent palette. Those same people will then deduct a point or two from another model, say a beautifully painted Space Marine that looks gritty, real, and battle scarred, simply because there was orange on the end of the Plasma Pistol, and the photo wasn't edited with Adobe. I sincerely doubt that a Space Marine says, "Wait guys, I can't go out to battle because my power sword isn't reflecting a lava source, the color of my pistol doesn't match anything else on my armor, and the background behind me isn't a gentle fade of blue to white." A lot of the people on that site, the vast majority of the top painters especially, don't even play or understand the game. They paint solely for artistic reasons and commission work. There's nothing wrong with that, I'm just pointing out that the scoring is often biased towards very specific things such as NMM, light sourcing, color palette selection, and photo editing. Bonus points are awarded if the artist is well-known, or a girl. Some of the techniques, such as NMM, are often cartoonish in their appearance, and 9 times out of 10 will look yellow, or blue, instead of like metal. The Rogal Dorn on page 1 of this thread (mistakenly labele "The Emperor"), was painted using only metallics and no NMM. I spoke with the artist myself, and asked how it was achieved. Really, it's a beautiful effect, and looks a lot more like metal than does Bubonic Brown faded into Sunburst Yellow. Maybe I'm a bit of a fluff man, and thus I prefer my realism, but I agree with some of the previous gripes about the scoring on CMoN. It's inconsistent, and often biased towards things which aren't always necessarily relative to what constitutes a quality paint job. EDIT: To be fair to the guy who gave that Elf an 8: it doesn't matter if he has done anything of great quality or not. A swing coach could never beat Tiger Woods in a game of golf, so should he not be allowed to critique and analyze his swing? It's possible to understand something just as well, or better than someone who can perform. That's because CMON is an artistic website in the first place. It has always been about the painting aspect of the hobby (techniques, colours, photography, styles, etc) and has nothing if not barely anything to do with gaming. I too, like you, much prefer realism in miniatures but that doesn't mean it should be presiding standard in which minatures are judged. Realism is simply a style/theme, not an arbitary criteria for great models. Rather, it's the quality and talent of the paintjob/painter that is being judged instead. CMON examines the strokes, effects, techniques, brush control, colour selection, etc, of the miniature and rates the paintjob based on that because they are looking at the skills of the painter. NMM, while it may not be "realistic", is yet another of one of the many styles out there and it in itself is a very difficult effect to achieve, thus proving one's capabilities if one is able to achieve it. Also, I find there is nothing wrong with CMON judging miniatures mainly based on very specific things such as NMM, light sourcing, color palette selection, and photo editing. Those are either the criteria when art is judged or advanced effects to pull off. And CMON is primarily an artist's website anyway. But I do agree that giving extra points because the artist is famous or a girl is pure ( Trygon says: "Say no to swearing"). CMON is an elitist community as well. If you think their judging is too strict or specific, honestly you should go off to another website which suits you better because they're going to stay that way. Better yet, why don't you post your miniatures and let us give you our comments instead, and since we're fellow Tyranid gamers our judging criteria will be less specific and strict; chances are that we are looking at the same things as you do when we review a paintjob. And personally realism is my favourite style too, so I guess we will get along just fine.
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Post by fromtheshadows on Aug 10, 2008 4:09:50 GMT
Hey guys, I found some cool models over at Warpshadow. Flyrant #1 Flyrant # 2 And also a transperent lictor! Cheers,
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Post by Facade [TVTP] on Aug 11, 2008 5:55:24 GMT
Haha, yeah..the transparent Lictor..cool.
Love the Tyrant...must be a bit delicate though...
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Post by Assimilator on Aug 11, 2008 20:24:47 GMT
MUST....NOT...FAP!! These models are just... I cant get over how fraking good they are! ARRRRR! I Want ice cream!
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Post by Helonion on Aug 11, 2008 21:08:21 GMT
The dark red of the first Flyrant is what I aim for with my army.
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Post by brassangel on Aug 12, 2008 1:28:38 GMT
I don't have a problem with anything I've had critiqued on their website, as it was years ago, and your rant in response to my own doesn't even address the points I make. Critiquing art is good. An artists' perspective is good. But when the sole basis for deducting points from a miniature is that of narrow artistic preference and not the artistic quality of the painted model, (ie: no light sourcing means -1 point, almost automatically, even if the work is beautiful; or no NMM is -1 point, even if NMM normally makes gold look yellow and brown instead of gold, etc.), it invalidates the basis of their judgment. Plain and simple. Nowhere is it defined as purely an artist's website, and the subject matter in question is almost exclusively the property of gaming materials. To exclude realism as valid because the majority of the artists simply lack an understanding of the subject being captured is nothing short of weak and opinionated judgment. If only the opinion of a few "elitists," as you put it, is considered valid, what point is there in participation? What point is there in claiming it to be art when artistic freedom is implicitly denied? Furthermore, their understanding of color palettes, eye-trick patterns, etc., are absolutely not a cut above anything else on various other websites. In fact, the advice of the professionals is often very restricting, predictable, and generally takes away from freedom of interpretation. If someone posts a completed project trying as hard as possible to capture the fluff of said miniature, there is no logical reason why they should be deducted points for not following the artistic preference of a few "elitists" who don't understand the background surrounding the subject before them. The reduction of scores based entirely on the principle of editing the photo with Adobe takes away any validity those people have in critiquing the art they observe. For some reason, it has to be that program. If the picture isn't straight out of an issue of White Dwarf, or edited with Adobe, the comments are flooded with points deductions and critiques. The paint job isn't even addressed in a vacuum, which is the value system allegedly adopted by the site to begin with. A photo edited to eliminate blending flaws, or accentuate light sourcing and highlighting, (of which, there are many in the higher ratings; I know, as I've seen quite a few of them in person), is not an accurate portrayal of the artist's work. It's a farse. I love the CMoN website, by the way. It's inspiring. I merely stated a gripe in agreement with the comments from an earlier post. My distaste for these particulars in no way suggests that I have any less interest in viewing it with regularity than do you. Nor does it deny me the right to visit it. Are we supposed to avoid public forums because there are things therein with which we may not agree? Good luck finding a home in one. My discontent is directed at the fact that [they] often favor one style in particular above all else. How open-minded is the artist/judge being to interpretation when the same critiques are made of every entry? Short of those submitted by particularly popular artists of course. Open-minded indeed. By the way, Scab, I appreciate this exchange. I'm simultaneously challenged and stimulated to hear a variating, and educated stance; even if in opposition. I abide with a great joy in knowing that realism is a medium you prefer. I too, believe that we will get along just fine. I am working on a brand new Tyranid army, and my skills have vastly improved since the days of my GD trophy, so I am chomping at the bit to put up some work that can hopefully inspire, and even rival, the likes of which graces your avatar.
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Post by brassangel on Aug 12, 2008 1:29:52 GMT
fromtheshadows: That looks great! I saw pictures when you were building it. It's excellent to see it brought to life with the brush.
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Post by Facade [TVTP] on Aug 12, 2008 1:52:51 GMT
I almost FAINTED when I saw this Batch of Pics, so lean back and watch: First, Sculpted Marneus Calgar, W00t! "Ya gotta feel sorry for the guy, he's Tyrant food!" Custom Biovore...not my Fave...but... Zoats! Someone LOVES Wings...amazing! Soon to come... "OMG! It's a! No wait that's the body of a! Wait, wait no, the head of a!!! Oh what is it???" It's a Battle Queen (Sorry Name ) What's that you say, Misanthrope?? "Ello' there Beastie, come 'un git some!" Look! In the sky! It's a Bee! No, it's Will Smith in a Yellow Jumpsuit! No, no! It's a Hive Tyrant...with stripes??? (Sorry for the joke, ) The GeneReaper Upper-Class Assault Catachan Devil: "Where's the head?" "Aawww...Swimmy died..." Cultists Custom Red Terror
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Post by Aux on Aug 12, 2008 5:14:55 GMT
Totally, anything can be achieved with some patience. Even if you class yourself as a terrible painter, take the time and you could go pro in no time. I utmost agree. Practice does make perfect. CoolMiniOrNot people often bug me for several reasons: They score a paintjob based on purely artistic principles, and not the physics of reality. For example, someone will get a bunch of 10's because they are well known professional painters (so essentially, a picture of their feces would get a good score), or because they followed the "rules" of color composition and consistent palette. Those same people will then deduct a point or two from another model, say a beautifully painted Space Marine that looks gritty, real, and battle scarred, simply because there was orange on the end of the Plasma Pistol, and the photo wasn't edited with Adobe. I sincerely doubt that a Space Marine says, "Wait guys, I can't go out to battle because my power sword isn't reflecting a lava source, the color of my pistol doesn't match anything else on my armor, and the background behind me isn't a gentle fade of blue to white." A lot of the people on that site, the vast majority of the top painters especially, don't even play or understand the game. They paint solely for artistic reasons and commission work. There's nothing wrong with that, I'm just pointing out that the scoring is often biased towards very specific things such as NMM, light sourcing, color palette selection, and photo editing. Bonus points are awarded if the artist is well-known, or a girl. Some of the techniques, such as NMM, are often cartoonish in their appearance, and 9 times out of 10 will look yellow, or blue, instead of like metal. The Rogal Dorn on page 1 of this thread (mistakenly labele "The Emperor"), was painted using only metallics and no NMM. I spoke with the artist myself, and asked how it was achieved. Really, it's a beautiful effect, and looks a lot more like metal than does Bubonic Brown faded into Sunburst Yellow. Maybe I'm a bit of a fluff man, and thus I prefer my realism, but I agree with some of the previous gripes about the scoring on CMoN. It's inconsistent, and often biased towards things which aren't always necessarily relative to what constitutes a quality paint job. EDIT: To be fair to the guy who gave that Elf an 8: it doesn't matter if he has done anything of great quality or not. A swing coach could never beat Tiger Woods in a game of golf, so should he not be allowed to critique and analyze his swing? It's possible to understand something just as well, or better than someone who can perform. That's because CMON is an artistic website in the first place. It has always been about the painting aspect of the hobby (techniques, colours, photography, styles, etc) and has nothing if not barely anything to do with gaming. I too, like you, much prefer realism in miniatures but that doesn't mean it should be presiding standard in which minatures are judged. Realism is simply a style/theme, not an arbitary criteria for great models. Rather, it's the quality and talent of the paintjob/painter that is being judged instead. CMON examines the strokes, effects, techniques, brush control, colour selection, etc, of the miniature and rates the paintjob based on that because they are looking at the skills of the painter. NMM, while it may not be "realistic", is yet another of one of the many styles out there and it in itself is a very difficult effect to achieve, thus proving one's capabilities if one is able to achieve it. Also, I find there is nothing wrong with CMON judging miniatures mainly based on very specific things such as NMM, light sourcing, color palette selection, and photo editing. Those are either the criteria when art is judged or advanced effects to pull off. And CMON is primarily an artist's website anyway. But I do agree that giving extra points because the artist is famous or a girl is pure ( Trygon says: "Say no to swearing"). CMON is an elitist community as well. If you think their judging is too strict or specific, honestly you should go off to another website which suits you better because they're going to stay that way. Better yet, why don't you post your miniatures and let us give you our comments instead, and since we're fellow Tyranid gamers our judging criteria will be less specific and strict; chances are that we are looking at the same things as you do when we review a paintjob. And personally realism is my favourite style too, so I guess we will get along just fine. Brass angel is right in my opinion. I like Table Top quality is good and what I like palying it. If a models going to be on display, thats when you GD style paint it and make it look spiffy. I know a Nid player who carefully moves around his Commissioned Hive Tyrant and if it falls he gets pissed. Thats because he shelled out 4k$ to get to propainted by a GD winner in Europe. Warhammer is about the Hobby and the Gaming. Artists want the painting. Gamers want the Gameing. That webiste is artists. The average painter will get 1s and 2s even if he tries. You try the best you can, and you play a game with plastic figures, and in the end if "Ohh that models not NMM painting, you get lower score" at a tournament. Just know that you tired. And laugh at the idiot who spent thousands of dollars to get a perfect painting score. (Note I do paint armies, but not like gerath/krakenfiend quality, so I'm not "Propainting", scizor and the others are) HEY, Brassangel and Scab... Go end the start of a small flame war NOW
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Post by fromtheshadows on Aug 12, 2008 6:45:43 GMT
Oh. Brassangel, lol. Those arent mine. No way, Mine is hopless. the first flyrant was Moloch's not sur about the others.
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Post by Assimilator on Aug 12, 2008 9:39:38 GMT
wait a minute i recognize the guns on those cultists......
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Post by Scab on Aug 12, 2008 12:21:50 GMT
HEY, Brassangel and Scab... Go end the start of a small flame war NOW What Brassangel said is utterly ridiculous and worthless. You and him are just a couple of ignorant nobodies. Why should I end the flame war? Just kidding! ;D Dude, you shouldn't worry too much, we weren't being aggressive or anything. People are generally friendly you know. You know, I actually agree with many of your points (editing photos till they become a farse for instance) but I didn't type it into my previous entry because I didn't want it to become an essay, so I apologize if I didn't phrase myself too well. By the way, thanks for the compliments! That's great coming from a Golden Demon winner, I'm humbled. You know, it would be a honour if you could post up your winning entry for our viewing pleasure, it would be great.
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Post by Facade [TVTP] on Aug 12, 2008 15:19:26 GMT
Oh noes...you're right...those guns are similiar...hmmmm jk. Yeah, looks like some Cultists have been feeding off of Grots/Goblins...The better tasting Green Space Fungus.....Mmmm...Yummy....
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Post by Facade [TVTP] on Aug 14, 2008 17:14:46 GMT
Alright, yet another batch of pics...Heavy: All kneel before the Hive Tyrant Prince Crimson Fists Dude (I forget this guy's name...) More Nids Games Day Mini FW Grey Knight Dreadnought FW Thousand Suns Dreadnought Ultramarines Comments?
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