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Post by gman25639 on Sept 12, 2023 15:38:34 GMT
This release has been an utter disaster. My LGS got very few model kits and Codexes still haven't arrived. This clearly artificial scarcity combined with the price tags on the kits is just going to drive ever more people to 3D printing or to other game systems entirely. Not to mention the balance changes forcing me to drop 2 entire units from my army list.
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Post by hivefleetkerrigan on Sept 12, 2023 15:45:43 GMT
So I just got my Codex and… yeah it’s only use is the code on the last page to unlock content in the app. Cover is the same, fluff is the same, graphics inside are the same. Get it, copy the code, put it on the shelf or under table’s leg or just throw it away - it’s useless. Thank you for your attention. Crusade rules too but they're a 2.0 look at the original ones from 9e. |
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Post by mattblowers on Sept 12, 2023 15:50:56 GMT
No one had any tyranids in Fresno this weekend. This may a be first. Brand new codex and not one player at a major event. Not even a diehard Tyranid fan. |
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Post by gigasnail on Sept 12, 2023 21:29:07 GMT
I had earmarked a pile of money to grab the new models, too.
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Post by ilovethenids on Sept 13, 2023 1:15:17 GMT
Yeah, my book just arrived and having seen it for myself, I found myself asking whether the rules design team suffer from lissencephaly. That's how utterly pathetic their attempt is. It sickens me.
Nothing tops how bad the 2014 codex was, but the 9th Ed codex [pre-over-nerfs] should be the golden standard template for a Tyranid codex - it was fun, flavorful, and with some points adjustments [less extreme than the hammer we got] it would be perfect. This? This is like someone went #2 on a stack of paper and sent it off to the printer.
I'll just list a few of the dumbest things, and closing thoughts in general, because if I spend too much time trying to analyze just how much stupidity they packed into this book, I'll give myself an aneurysm.
1. We have next to no genuine anti-tank for anything other than an arm and a leg, points-wise. Same holds true for heavily armored units in general (not a huge problem for small units, but larger units or units with lots of wounds). They talk about making armor saves mean more by making higher AP harder to come by, then hand AP-3 out like candy to at least 50% of armies (lascannons, plasma) - we have barely a handful of AP-3 or better weapons across ALL of our units, and they're overcosted, unreliable, or both. This was such an obvious fix that anyone with 2 or more brain cells could fix it: venom cannons AP-3, GS and Broodlord AP-3, melee Strike attacks with monstrous melee weapons -3, give an additional -1 AP to some currently AP-1 weapons (Hive Guard ranged weapons - making Impaler Cannons S5 is plenty to nerf their anti-vehicle capability, at least give them AP-2 to let them be decent for anti heavy-infantry, and Electroshock cannon at AP-1 is an utter joke).
2. They completely messed up our entire faction core rules. 9th ed did it correctly: Synapse wasn't just a "tax" to make your army function - being within synapse range actually gave benefits to organisms within Synapse range that were not purely dependent on strategems. Now, Synapse is just a tax again. You can't use strategems on units outside of Synapse, and your Ld is (please do not swear) so if you're out of Synapse and get Battle Shock, your unit is screwed. The "3 dice and discarding the lowest" (please do not swear) is dumb - MAYBE if they had increased Synapse range back up to 12" it would have been excusable, but 6"? Tyranids in Synapse range should be ignoring Battle Shock entirely, as they ignored morale and leadership in basically every other edition. Make the current Synapse rule a 12" aura, and buff it to ignoring Battle shock if within 6". Shadow in the Warp right now is highly situational, which translates to "garbage." If an ability is only useful if your opponent has poor leadership, and straight-up useless against a good deal of factions due to them having solid leadership passing BS tests even with modifiers, it's (please do not swear). A good faction ability needs to be some degree of useful no matter what army you play against, if you play it right, and not just be a side show of "you can do this but most of the time it won't matter, you just get it for free so we can say we're giving you something." Change SiTW to "Enemy units within 12" of a Synapse unit take -1 to all Battle Shock tests (-D3 if they're within 12" of 3 or more Synapse units), and any enemy Psychic attacks targeting a Synapse creature or made within 12" of a Synapse creature gain the Hazardous keyword." Give the Neurotyrant the ability to force a Battle Shock test on a chosen target within 12" once per battle round, so it still takes advantage of SiTW but actually has a better chance of doing something.
3. The Tyranids are supposed to feel SCARY. Like "I would Ally even with my worst enemy to fight against them" scary (as has happened in the lore more than once). A properly designed Tyranid codex should have an opponent sweat a little when they see you deploying, because they see genuine threats that will make utter mincemeat of their army if they aren't dealt with. Right now opponents just look at our biggest monsters and know "yeah I can knock that off the table in a shooting/fight phase." We need units that are genuinely tanky, and will shake off a ridiculous amount of the opponent's firepower before going down, but they HAVE to deal with it before it hits hem because it will turn their deployment zone into a charnel house. We need units that are easily taken out, but can either dish out a LOT of damage or severely disrupt the opponent's plans (in any number of ways) if not dealt with. The opponent should be stressed by the threat saturation because they know they can take some threats out, but the ones they don't will cause serious problems, giving them a catch-22 [which will be easier for players with experience fighting Tyranids]. The Tyranids are supposedly the "big bad wolf" marking the new edition - make them FEEL like it.
The new models look fantastic, which makes me sad that they're all going to be expensive paperweights until the one fabled day that we get non-(please do not swear). Alternatively, if I have sufficient motivation I might homebrew an actual good codex though that is unlikely.
For those who still like it, more power to ya. I'm sure someone can make this work for them. I'm glad there are people trying to make the best of it. I'm making the personal decision to not engage with disgusting mediocrity.
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Post by piersonsmuppet on Sept 13, 2023 2:06:42 GMT
Just to correct a few of the errors above:
- Battle Shock tests within synapse are 3d6 not 3d6 drop the lowest.
- There are only 3 stratagems that require a model to be in Synapse range (2 in Nexus & 1 in Endless).
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Post by gauntlet on Sept 13, 2023 17:16:44 GMT
May guess is that they thought lets make two versions of 40k, the proper version and a tiny inconsequential version, rules included in starter set, that you only play during your first few games, until you buy some more models and have bought the Codex and Core rulebook. The dumb version, we will call Combat Patrol, you don't get any gear choices and the and dataslates don't really work in the proper 40k. Combat Patrol is not a proper game so we don't need to test it. Oh (please do not swear), is that the deadline already, but we haven't finished Combat Patrol rules, never mind touched the 40k proper. OMG! lets just focus on producing something, so take the Combat Patrol rules, and Power Levels and try make it look bigger. We have to make this work, forget testing, no time.
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Post by broyston on Sept 13, 2023 23:32:12 GMT
Haven't got my codex yet, could anyone who has confirm a comment made by Auspex Tactics in one of his videos that Warriors with Ranged Weapons are back to one special weapon (venom cannon, barbed stranger) per three warriors instead of one of each per three as in the 9th codex and 10th Index? Just glued my warriors arms on after getting frustrated trying to magnetise them (getting the angles of the magnets was a pain...). Would be a final kick after all the other things that I have seen in this thread .....
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Post by purestrain on Sept 14, 2023 0:45:33 GMT
Haven't got my codex yet, could anyone who has confirm a comment made by Auspex Tactics in one of his videos that Warriors with Ranged Weapons are back to one special weapon (venom cannon, barbed stranger) per three warriors instead of one of each per three as in the 9th codex and 10th Index? Just glued my warriors arms on after getting frustrated trying to magnetise them (getting the angles of the magnets was a pain...). Would be a final kick after all the other things that I have seen in this thread ..... You are still able to wield both in a 3 man unit according to mine |
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Post by nidzy on Sept 14, 2023 1:13:54 GMT
Yeah, my book just arrived and having seen it for myself, I found myself asking whether the rules design team suffer from lissencephaly. That's how utterly pathetic their attempt is. It sickens me. Nothing tops how bad the 2014 codex was, but the 9th Ed codex [pre-over-nerfs] should be the golden standard template for a Tyranid codex - it was fun, flavorful, and with some points adjustments [less extreme than the hammer we got] it would be perfect. This? This is like someone went #2 on a stack of paper and sent it off to the printer. I'll just list a few of the dumbest things, and closing thoughts in general, because if I spend too much time trying to analyze just how much stupidity they packed into this book, I'll give myself an aneurysm. 1. We have next to no genuine anti-tank for anything other than an arm and a leg, points-wise. Same holds true for heavily armored units in general (not a huge problem for small units, but larger units or units with lots of wounds). They talk about making armor saves mean more by making higher AP harder to come by, then hand AP-3 out like candy to at least 50% of armies (lascannons, plasma) - we have barely a handful of AP-3 or better weapons across ALL of our units, and they're overcosted, unreliable, or both. This was such an obvious fix that anyone with 2 or more brain cells could fix it: venom cannons AP-3, GS and Broodlord AP-3, melee Strike attacks with monstrous melee weapons -3, give an additional -1 AP to some currently AP-1 weapons (Hive Guard ranged weapons - making Impaler Cannons S5 is plenty to nerf their anti-vehicle capability, at least give them AP-2 to let them be decent for anti heavy-infantry, and Electroshock cannon at AP-1 is an utter joke). 2. They completely messed up our entire faction core rules. 9th ed did it correctly: Synapse wasn't just a "tax" to make your army function - being within synapse range actually gave benefits to organisms within Synapse range that were not purely dependent on strategems. Now, Synapse is just a tax again. You can't use strategems on units outside of Synapse, and your Ld is (please do not swear) so if you're out of Synapse and get Battle Shock, your unit is screwed. The "3 dice and discarding the lowest" (please do not swear) is dumb - MAYBE if they had increased Synapse range back up to 12" it would have been excusable, but 6"? Tyranids in Synapse range should be ignoring Battle Shock entirely, as they ignored morale and leadership in basically every other edition. Make the current Synapse rule a 12" aura, and buff it to ignoring Battle shock if within 6". Shadow in the Warp right now is highly situational, which translates to "garbage." If an ability is only useful if your opponent has poor leadership, and straight-up useless against a good deal of factions due to them having solid leadership passing BS tests even with modifiers, it's (please do not swear). A good faction ability needs to be some degree of useful no matter what army you play against, if you play it right, and not just be a side show of "you can do this but most of the time it won't matter, you just get it for free so we can say we're giving you something." Change SiTW to "Enemy units within 12" of a Synapse unit take -1 to all Battle Shock tests (-D3 if they're within 12" of 3 or more Synapse units), and any enemy Psychic attacks targeting a Synapse creature or made within 12" of a Synapse creature gain the Hazardous keyword." Give the Neurotyrant the ability to force a Battle Shock test on a chosen target within 12" once per battle round, so it still takes advantage of SiTW but actually has a better chance of doing something. 3. The Tyranids are supposed to feel SCARY. Like "I would Ally even with my worst enemy to fight against them" scary (as has happened in the lore more than once). A properly designed Tyranid codex should have an opponent sweat a little when they see you deploying, because they see genuine threats that will make utter mincemeat of their army if they aren't dealt with. Right now opponents just look at our biggest monsters and know "yeah I can knock that off the table in a shooting/fight phase." We need units that are genuinely tanky, and will shake off a ridiculous amount of the opponent's firepower before going down, but they HAVE to deal with it before it hits hem because it will turn their deployment zone into a charnel house. We need units that are easily taken out, but can either dish out a LOT of damage or severely disrupt the opponent's plans (in any number of ways) if not dealt with. The opponent should be stressed by the threat saturation because they know they can take some threats out, but the ones they don't will cause serious problems, giving them a catch-22 [which will be easier for players with experience fighting Tyranids]. The Tyranids are supposedly the "big bad wolf" marking the new edition - make them FEEL like it. The new models look fantastic, which makes me sad that they're all going to be expensive paperweights until the one fabled day that we get non-(please do not swear). Alternatively, if I have sufficient motivation I might homebrew an actual good codex though that is unlikely. For those who still like it, more power to ya. I'm sure someone can make this work for them. I'm glad there are people trying to make the best of it. I'm making the personal decision to not engage with disgusting mediocrity. You said a lot of words here to say you don’t want to play the play style this book offers (and does really well at). That’s all fine. At least this book has a faction identity unlike the 5/6/7 Ed books. However, your critique is almost entirely hyperbole and otherwise completely lacks substance beyond “9th Ed book good, 10th Ed book back.” Great (please do not swear) job. You solved it. Battleshock overall is a lackluster mechanic but it’s better than your critique of the book around it. For example, the neurolictor already does what you said the neurotyrant should do, battle shock a unit once per turn. I’m already bored with writing further critique tbh. Hot takes from the butt mad internet are the worst thing about 40K and pretty much everything else too. This one was particularly galling to me for some reason. Sorry to emerge just to trash it but my god. |
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Post by trashcan01 on Sept 14, 2023 2:44:38 GMT
From my perspective, some things could be better but the Codex looks fun. I'm also happy that we got our Codex at all - I can't imagine how Astra Militarum players are feeling atm. They got the shaft in the 9th edition, their Codex being valid only for a couple of months before 10thED Indexes were published.
It's not doom and gloom all over the place. I'm pretty sure we will be getting point changes in the next update that will solve most of messy stuff for us. The whole Codex points - Munitorum Points - Datasheets relationship is totally chaotic atm.
GW managed to cover all corners of the faction regarding detachments. Big bugs, stealthy bugs, swarmy bugs, smart bugs. Yes, some of the detachments are stronger than others, but that will always be the case.
Plenty of games to be had just in the testing phase. I think I'm able to field decent lists of every detachment except Assimilation one, as I'm not planning on buying Pyrovore kit anytime soon.
To be honest, I'm looking forward to rolling some dice. I think we're still in the middle of the pack.
edit: I can't wait to field 120 Termagants and 2x Tervigons!
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Post by piersonsmuppet on Sept 14, 2023 3:44:57 GMT
The 10E codex has been more fun to try different detachments than 9E was for trying different fleets imo. I think this one has a lot more options and angles than 9E, where we just had unbalanced datasheets. I will say it is refreshing to have opponents not dreading playing me.
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Post by dkng on Sept 14, 2023 6:20:13 GMT
I will say it is refreshing to have opponents not dreading playing me. Shame the opposite isn’t true  |
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Post by broyston on Sept 14, 2023 8:51:55 GMT
Haven't got my codex yet, could anyone who has confirm a comment made by Auspex Tactics in one of his videos that Warriors with Ranged Weapons are back to one special weapon (venom cannon, barbed stranger) per three warriors instead of one of each per three as in the 9th codex and 10th Index? Just glued my warriors arms on after getting frustrated trying to magnetise them (getting the angles of the magnets was a pain...). Would be a final kick after all the other things that I have seen in this thread ..... You are still able to wield both in a 3 man unit according to mine Great, thanks, he must have made an error. Not that warriors are particularly great this edition, but I must always have a couple of units in my lists, at least I won't need to pull any arms off...... |
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Post by dkng on Sept 14, 2023 9:20:06 GMT
Ranged Warriors can be ok… -ish in Assimilation and Nexus lists.
In the former they can ressurect and the latter worsens incoming AP which can make them a bit harder to shift. They are Synapse so aren’t all that useless but sadly not too competitive.
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