10th Edition Rules Clarifications

[goodbrood]

I thought so

[goodbrood]

Another query to which the answer is probably no:

Are any tyranid units able to split larger squads down to smaller size?

[nidsallday]

Jul 1, 2023 19:20:55 GMT goodbrood said:

Another query to which the answer is probably no:

Are any tyranid units able to split larger squads down to smaller size?

if you mean like carnifexes used to in 9th: no, as far as im aware there is no longer such ability

just to make this super clear: but of course you always can take more units in smaller sizes (i.e. either 1x 6 warriors or 2x 3 warriors for the same points, just mind the unit/datasheet limit: only three units of the same datasheet (can be varying sizes), or six units of the same datasheet if the datasheet has battleline keyword)

[No One]

piersonsmuppet said:

I would actually say yes to all those about the Cryptothralls; their rule says that they become a part of the Bodyguard unit (noticeably different from how Leaders become a part of an Attached unit). This honestly provides even more strength to the thought that Bodyguard units with "this unit" abilities will affect only the Bodyguard unit and not the Attached unit (otherwise the Cryptothralls would not need to be added to the Bodyguard unit).

I don't see them as being that crazy, Warriors barely tickle in melee so they really only give 4Ws at a Sv 3+ instead of Sv 4+. Probably only "very good" with Orikan & Warscythe Lychguard to protect the 4++ ability (he can't take the 5+++ enhancement), and only "good" if running 2+ non-named cryptarks.

They need to be added to the bodyguard unit or else a pile of things function way differently: no triple attaching, no allocating saves to them first, no reaning them if they died (...ish, it's messy but there'd definitely be changes to Starting Strength). Leaders have a pile of extra rules they have to follow, even though they're still part of the unit. Cryptos don't have all that extra rule overhead.

Also repeatedly ressing 3+/4+++ models are very good.

And yes, RAW they grant the entire unit fight on death because they somehow added nothing about models with this ability or similar.

[piersonsmuppet]

How does Perfectly Adapted work with an Attached Leader and Advance/Charge rolls? Seems like it allows those to be rr'd for the unit. I know the hotness is Synapse on the BL for a GS unit, but PA could give the unit some nice flexibility combined with Alien Cunning to hit the charge out of reserves when going second (especially if you have a protected spot to Rapid Ingress <15" from a juicy target).

[piersonsmuppet]

For the Hive Tyrant, how does the ability EXTRA ATTACKS work if the model only has 1 melee profile. MST vs MBS when using a STC or HVC seems like a complete downgrade (less A, S, AP, D, and no TWIN-LINK). Is it crazy to play it with the following flow?

Select 1 MST weapon and make 4 normal attacks
Make 4 EXTRA ATTACKS with the chosen MST
Make another 4 EXTRA attacks if the Tyrant has a second MST weapon.

8/12 seems like a more reasonable stat line than 4/8 considering what is lost, and I don't think there are any effects on other units in the codex playing this way (ie. Carnifex don't gain attacks taking CEST/Cannon over CST/Cannon). MST on the Hive Tyrant seem like a dead pick if this isn't how to play EXTRA ATTACKS.

[No One]

The rules for selecting melee weapons don't care (i.e. yes you can select an extra attack weapon), and then per Extra Attacks "Each time the bearer of such a weapon fights, it can make attacks
with that weapon in addition to the one it chooses to fight with." So yeah, works fine to me (and some other people I've asked about it too) and is...plausibly even intended based on how the walkrant weapons load outs would work out otherwise. Seems just neat on a walkrant (bonesword's still better pretty sure than any single talon), but is quite spicy with haruspex.

[piersonsmuppet]

Well, at least it's nice to know I'm not on an island with that though process for EXTRA ATTACKS. Didn't think about it for the Haruspex, actually looks decent for anti-tank w/ 8A.

[piersonsmuppet]

Can a Winged Hive Tyrant use Will of the Hive Mind while in reserves to gain a 2nd free use of Rapid Ingress? A unit is always within range of its Aura, so I suppose it's more asking if a unit is always within range of its own non-Aura abilities as well (can't find a no).

[No One]

Honestly not sure: to quote a post I made elsewhere

Depends if you take the rule about auras as explanatory (i.e. you're always within range of yourself by definition, because your base is always not more than any distance away from itself 😅 ), or an exception (i.e. you can't measure distances off board, so otherwise it'd be N/A, but because it says you're within aura range it's still the case)

I'd lean towards the former, but I don't think there's a definitive answer to be had.

[Iryan]

Hummm... I just had a realization.

Correct me if I am wrong, but if I am not mistaken, the core rule Tank Shock stratagem can be used on ANY <Vehicle> unit. This includes vehicles such as dreadnaughts and knights.

The number of mortal wounds dealt by Tank Shock depends on the strength characteristic of a melee weapon held by the vehicle. And many walkers have powerful melee weapons, often with a sweep-strike profile where the strike has a very high strength.

So when charging with something like, say, an Armiger Warglaive (S10), an Ironclad Dreadnaught (S14), a Khorne Lord of Skulls (S16), or any knight with a gauntlet (S20), you will be doing around 4, 5, 6, or guaranteed 6 bonus mortal woulds for 1CP on the charge... as opposed to the maybe 3 you would get with your average TANK. You know, the thing the strat is intended for.

Welp.

[purestrain]

Jul 2, 2023 8:53:38 GMT No One said:

The rules for selecting melee weapons don't care (i.e. yes you can select an extra attack weapon), and then per Extra Attacks "Each time the bearer of such a weapon fights, it can make attacks
with that weapon in addition to the one it chooses to fight with." So yeah, works fine to me (and some other people I've asked about it too) and is...plausibly even intended based on how the walkrant weapons load outs would work out otherwise. Seems just neat on a walkrant (bonesword's still better pretty sure than any single talon), but is quite spicy with haruspex.

Ehhh, it clearly states you can make attacks with after making attacks with original weapon you selected, since you never selected a non EXTRA ATTACKS weapon, I can't see it actually allowing you to double the amount of attacks.

It also states that you cannot modify the amount of attacks made by the weapon with any rules, of which I would lean toward selecting it as your main attack weapon would fall under.


This is a Devil's advocate post, I in no way have any more knowledge than anyone here, it just doesn't feel right for that to happen. Would be very glad to be wrong.

I mean, look at my avatar

[nidsallday]

Jul 3, 2023 11:41:09 GMT Iryan said:

Hummm... I just had a realization.

Correct me if I am wrong, but if I am not mistaken, the core rule Tank Shock stratagem can be used on ANY <Vehicle> unit. This includes vehicles such as dreadnaughts and knights.

The number of mortal wounds dealt by Tank Shock depends on the strength characteristic of a melee weapon held by the vehicle. And many walkers have powerful melee weapons, often with a sweep-strike profile where the strike has a very high strength.

So when charging with something like, say, an Armiger Warglaive (S10), an Ironclad Dreadnaught (S14), a Khorne Lord of Skulls (S16), or any knight with a gauntlet (S20), you will be doing around 4, 5, 6, or guaranteed 6 bonus mortal woulds for 1CP on the charge... as opposed to the maybe 3 you would get with your average TANK. You know, the thing the strat is intended for.

Welp.

yeah, this is smth either auspex or trevy (or both?) pointed out right when this strat was leaked/presented. it seems like the topic got a bit lost under the more problematic stuff (aeldari, towering,...).

[Iryan]

I wonder how you would fix that. I guess you would need to specify "Vehicles (except Walkers)" and then make sure that all the keywords are in order.

Jul 3, 2023 15:08:25 GMT nidsallday said:

yeah, this is smth either auspex or trevy (or both?) pointed out right when this strat was leaked/presented. it seems like the topic got a bit lost under the more problematic stuff (aeldari, towering,...).

What is the problem with <Towering>, specifically..?

[hiveoverall]

Jul 2, 2023 7:10:25 GMT piersonsmuppet said:

How does Perfectly Adapted work with an Attached Leader and Advance/Charge rolls? Seems like it allows those to be rr'd for the unit. I know the hotness is Synapse on the BL for a GS unit, but PA could give the unit some nice flexibility combined with Alien Cunning to hit the charge out of reserves when going second (especially if you have a protected spot to Rapid Ingress <15" from a juicy target).

Yes, rr for the whole unit advance or charge for the whole unit. Seeing how expensive GS and BL is, I am not even sure the trick is worth it, but maybe it is. I have played with orks, and nobz + warboss in a truck seems so much better than stealers and broodlord (of course comparing stuff like from diffrent indexes has only very, very limited value)