First time Crusader

[twistedmagpie]

Good morning everyone,

I have been playing nids for a few years, nothing competitive; just for fun.

I have been invited to a 4 game crusade friendly tournament. However I have never even looked at the crusade rules.

I've had a look through and it seems simple enough, however I would imagine that a successful crusade would come with experience.

As such is like to ask you for yours...

For example; are there any hive fleets that would benefit crusades more, certain formations and tactics that would be advisable to implement from the start.

I'm totally open to anything you can give me

Thanks in advance...

Ian

[hivefleetkerrigan]

Personally, I'd say build what you want with crusade and have a good time.

If you want to look at it competitively, look for fun combos on units. You could add fleet of foot on hormogaunts so they can move very far. You could add extra casts onto a maleceptor so you can dish out more mortal wounds.

[piersonsmuppet]

Malceptor & Zoans can become pretty good in Crusade; they gain additional mobility, MW output, Aura range, extra Casts, and/or Obsec from casting via Psychic Fortitudes.

Neurothrope also is super nice with a few Psychic Fortitudes & Crusade Relics; it can have up to 4 casts that can’t be denied on an 8+.

[vejby]

Yeah, those things are fun. At least on paper, but when you clean out your opponent with one psychic phase from your non-interactive mortal wound-generator in one phase, it just high lights how broken GW's rules can become.

If you want fun crusade and not just coin flips, aim for non-meta units and keep an eye on points costs. Fully upgraded warriors are expensive enough in points that they ought to cost 1,5-2 times more PL than they do, so that just skews you list. If everybody do that, then it might be fine, but if not you could play your 750-800 points army against their 500 points.

I've started a small crusade with a brood lord, 3x5 fully upgraded genestealers and one lictor. The genestealers are so horrible that fully upgrading them does not do a lot in spite of the point cost differential and they have done very poor so far   On the other hand, I consider it a very fluffy niche list that may come to do very well with a few buffs on each squad and it simply would not be feasible outside of Crusade. 

[twistedmagpie]

If I could only fit one of the following in my Order which would be better.... Exocrine or Tyrannofex?

I generally go now melee; I'm taking the Hive Tyrant, heavy venom cannon, bonesword, leviathan perfectly adapted - not sure on relic yet; possibly the reaper of obliterax

A unit of 10 hornagaunts, a large unit of warriors 6 strong

3 zoenthropes with a neurothrope too

A screamer killer with synapse (to abuse levitation buff)

And the exocrine.

If I go Tyrannofex then I'd have to find another point somewhere.

What does that sound like to start? Am I too weak on objective secured for this size battle?
If I drop the exocrine totally I don't have much ranged at all and would feel too weak. The same goes with melee if I drop the screamer killer so I don't want to do that either.
Any other thoughts to how to get more scoring if necessary?

[piersonsmuppet]

Are you planning to use the rr hit adaptive? If so, I’d recommend Shardgullet on the Tyrant and the Tfex over an Exocrine (drop Synapse on the SK for now).

[twistedmagpie]

Thanks for all the advice....

I have submitted the following Order (80pts; battles will be selected at 50pts)


++ Order of Battle (Tyranids) [80 PL, 4CP, 1,995pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [6CP]: 2. Incursion (51-100 Total PL / 501-1000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Game Type: Narrative (Crusade)

Hive Fleet: (Hunt) Augmented Ferocity, Leviathan

+ Stratagems +

Hive Predator [-1CP]: Extra Warlord Trait

Rarefied Enhancements [-1CP]: Extra Bio-artefact

+ HQ +

Hive Tyrant [9 PL, 215pts]: Adrenal Glands, Heavy Venom Cannon, Lash Whip and Monstrous Bonesword, Power: Catalyst, Power: Paroxysm, Power: Smite, Relic: Shardgullet, Toxin Sacs, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Perfectly Adapted

Neurothrope [5 PL, 110pts]: Power: Hive Nexus, Power: Onslaught, Power: Smite, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Direct Guidance
. Relic: Resonance Barb: Power: The Horror

+ Troops +

Gargoyles [4 PL, 80pts]
. 10x Gargoyle: 10x Fleshborer

Gargoyles [4 PL, 80pts]
. 10x Gargoyle: 10x Fleshborer

Hormagaunts [4 PL, 110pts]: Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs
. 10x Hormagaunt: 10x Hormagaunt Talons

Hormagaunts [4 PL, 110pts]: Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs
. 10x Hormagaunt: 10x Hormagaunt Talons

Tyranid Warriors [8 PL, 300pts]: Adrenal Glands, Flesh Hooks, Toxin Sacs
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords
. Tyranid Warrior: Dual Boneswords, Venom Cannon
. Tyranid Warrior: Dual Boneswords, Venom Cannon

+ Elites +

Genestealers [5 PL, 115pts]: Acid Maw, Flesh Hooks, Infestation Node, Toxin Sacs
. 5x Genestealer: 5x Genestealer Claws and Talons

Lictor [4 PL, 70pts]

Maleceptor [9 PL, 220pts]: Power: Onslaught, Power: Psychic Scream, Power: Smite

Zoanthropes [7 PL, 210pts]: Power: Neuroparasite, Power: Smite, 3x Zoanthrope

+ Heavy Support +

Exocrine [9 PL, 200pts]

Screamer-Killers [8 PL, 175pts]
. Screamer-Killer: Adaptive Physiology: Synaptic Enhancement, Adrenal Glands, Spore Cysts, Toxin Sacs

++ Total: [80 PL, 4CP, 1,995pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Now let's talk tactics please... I'm not too sure how to make the most of the devouring worlds rules.
I have a practice game (maybe 2) before the tournament where I will be able to gain some experience before going.

In the tournament itself I intend to go with the following as a general rule of thumb...

Tyrant 9
Neurothrope 5
6 Warriors 8
Hormagaunts 4
Maleceptor 9
Zoenthropes 7
Screamer Killer 8

If I need to get some more gribblees running around then I'll switch out the maleceptor for some units that can do actions/ be troops etc.

The practice game will be against orks;

My question is.....
Is it worth playing more infantry units in the practice just to gain experience and not care too much about winning; try to build up resources for my world devouring or to play the list I will in the tournament to gain XP on the monsters specifically?

[No One]

Oh wait, you're running PL? Wow: I mean, on the one hand we can't really abuse PL wargear, on the other...points nerfs, not PL nerfs. Also you're missing a power on your neuro (and best 3 for res barb neuro are cat, onslaught, parox )

twistedmagpie said:

Now let's talk tactics please... I'm not too sure how to make the most of the devouring worlds rules.
I have a practice game (maybe 2) before the tournament where I will be able to gain some experience before going.

How's the tournament handling crusade rules? Literally game to game, follow all your army crusade stuff? Do you know missions? Can you use requisitions (I'd suggest swapping zoan imperative with the tyrant, but uhh...with PL zoans seem fine).

Is it worth playing more infantry units in the practice just to gain experience and not care too much about winning; try to build up resources for my world devouring or to play the list I will in the tournament to gain XP on the monsters specifically?

I mean, extra xp on some of the infantry stuff is neat, but unless you're doing something strong with it...It's actually potentially disadvantageous (each rank is essentially a 0.5 CP swing away from you). Outside obsec on lictor/stealers, don't think there's anything really worth building towards on your 'util/scoring' stuff, though there's of course plenty of nice to have battle honours.

And there really doesn't seem there's much to go for with any of the other rules either: by the time you get to consumption you're not going to be getting advantage from the extra xp (I'd be surprised if you get to devour a planet at all), and the strat's neat on the exo but worse than its own strat outside the implanted spore marker (which needs an agenda, so...), and not really usable on anyone else. Infestation could be strong if built for, but you've only got 10 mans and have stealers for forward deploy options anyway.

Basically I'd just ignore it, focus on best agendas for xp (which, in some match ups, definitely could be the nid ones, but risky and/or not good for where you want to bank your xp). Probably focus xp on your psykers (you've got a lot of good options in the psychic fortitudes: zoans with move after smite would be brutal, extra cast 'cepter, relic for undeniable, and I'm sure there's something you could put on the walkrant). Also options for extra T on Synapse. Then I guess if you've still got options, mobility buffs, wargear buff on screamer killer.

List seems...fine? It's small PL, but those are all good stuff, especially with PL: I'd consider swapping the horms for a lictor and try and get it the obsec battle honour, because lictor jank. But honestly without t-guard I don't know if that's anything amazing.

[twistedmagpie]

I'm not entirely sure how the tournament is handling requisition points, it says you start with 5. But that is that standard rule for a new crusade so I don't know if I spend all 5, play 1 game and then get another 5 at the start of the tournament. I'm a bit confused about that to be fair.

I don't know the missions yet either.

The neuro is 5 PL on battle scribe; is that wrong?

I was wondering if I played the test game with lots of infantry and made a big play to get biomass from the agenda's then I'd be more likely to devour a world during the tournament and that may provide a much needed buff.

[No One]

twistedmagpie said:

The neuro is 5 PL on battle scribe; is that wrong?

Psychic power, not PL.

I was wondering if I played the test game with lots of infantry and made a big play to get biomass from the agenda's then I'd be more likely to devour a world during the tournament and that may provide a much needed buff.

Look at your buffs. They're WL/relic reqs (which you already have), experience (which you could've just focused on getting in the first place), or I guess...you could give 'cepter or exo an adaptive physiology? And that's only if you complete the full thing, which I doubt would happen even if you hard pushed for it (and would likely result in losing games).

They're really not short power buffs.

[mattblowers]

Mar 2, 2023 8:01:37 GMT twistedmagpie said:

Good morning everyone,

I have been playing nids for a few years, nothing competitive; just for fun.

I have been invited to a 4 game crusade friendly tournament. However I have never even looked at the crusade rules.

I've had a look through and it seems simple enough, however I would imagine that a successful crusade would come with experience.

As such is like to ask you for yours...

For example; are there any hive fleets that would benefit crusades more, certain formations and tactics that would be advisable to implement from the start.

I'm totally open to anything you can give me

Thanks in advance...

Ian

As a decades long wargamer I can say with confidence to build and play what you think is cool. Especially crusade. Rules are in constant flux and change. Build and paint what you speaks to you, you spend more time doing that than playing, or at least most do. Chasing the meta usually doesn't work. Spending time to build and paint what you love and finding a way to work it into your list is really satisfying. I'd rather run middle of the pack with models I love than top dog with the latest netlist. Nothing more satisfying to me than catching someone off guard with a 'bad' unit.

These are general principals I follow. This edition my play is extremely limited so take that into account. If your meta is cut-throat it may change the calculus if you are getting discouraged being curb-stomped. That said, I've played 40K for many editions and the meta is constantly shifting. Buy, build, and paint what you love and you'll never be sorry. I've played 1 game this edition, but my models in my display case still bring me joy.

And the title of your thread, I just keep hearing in my head, "long time hiver, first time crusader". To which my brain talk wants to reply, "welcome to the show twistedmagpie !"

[twistedmagpie]

Mar 9, 2023 16:26:57 GMT mattblowers said:

Mar 2, 2023 8:01:37 GMT twistedmagpie said:

Good morning everyone,

I have been playing nids for a few years, nothing competitive; just for fun.

I have been invited to a 4 game crusade friendly tournament. However I have never even looked at the crusade rules.

I've had a look through and it seems simple enough, however I would imagine that a successful crusade would come with experience.

As such is like to ask you for yours...

For example; are there any hive fleets that would benefit crusades more, certain formations and tactics that would be advisable to implement from the start.

I'm totally open to anything you can give me

Thanks in advance...

Ian

As a decades long wargamer I can say with confidence to build and play what you think is cool. Especially crusade. Rules are in constant flux and change. Build and paint what you speaks to you, you spend more time doing that than playing, or at least most do. Chasing the meta usually doesn't work. Spending time to build and paint what you love and finding a way to work it into your list is really satisfying. I'd rather run middle of the pack with models I love than top dog with the latest netlist. Nothing more satisfying to me than catching someone off guard with a 'bad' unit.

These are general principals I follow. This edition my play is extremely limited so take that into account. If your meta is cut-throat it may change the calculus if you are getting discouraged being curb-stomped. That said, I've played 40K for many editions and the meta is constantly shifting. Buy, build, and paint what you love and you'll never be sorry. I've played 1 game this edition, but my models in my display case still bring me joy.

And the title of your thread, I just keep hearing in my head, "long time hiver, first time crusader". To which my brain talk wants to reply, "welcome to the show twistedmagpie !"

Thanks dude, I appreciate you're input and totally agree with you in all points.

My question was more about the mechanics of crusade and how certain units gain XP through the World Destruction process. Also how the smaller points of crusade might effect how we go about list building.

I actually own lots of models already and have had a great time painting them. It is the most enjoyable and rewarding part of the hobby.

I'm going with the biggest bugs I can fit in and some warriors. It's gonna be fun whatever happens

[twistedmagpie]

Hi... Rules question....

I've given my screamer killer the adaptive physiology to gain synapse. When he gains a battle traits does he now have access to those in the synapse table?

[hivefleetkerrigan]

I'd say yes. I'd say he cannot go on the non synapse table anymore

[twistedmagpie]

Almost worth taking the extra strength on attacks and then adding physiology of that's possible (I can't add I've already done it at creation anyway).