Mawloc & Infiltrators

[mattblowers]

Mar 9, 2023 14:16:32 GMT bigbadbalou said:

Personally, I like dissecting rules and trying to find what works and what not. But hardly ever see situation when those conflict arrives in real gameplay. And I think one should not focus entirely on this too during live playing. I like to discuss those things in forums like here, but when I was playing for real, I would never bring theses debates in the game. I would usually flip a coin with my opponent if we had a disagreement and get on with it quick. If it was something important, we would discuss it together after the game and get informed more deeply (in forums like here hahaha).

But sadly, you are probably right about GW itself. In this case, would there be a FAQ or a confirmation from GW, it would probably be in favor of their precious Space marines as always. But since it's for a VERY specific case, affecting only one tyranid model vs only one other model... I doubt they will even bring their attention to it at all...

I used to find rules dissecting fun too. 40K maybe not so much. In normal friendly games maybe a coin flip or roll-off is OK, but I find in competitive environments that this can abusive when wielded by ill-intenioned players. "I'm going to rule lawyer in my favor something that is intentionally being read against you so let's roll-off (it's in the rules!) to see if I get to take advantage of you!" This is a non-starter for me.

I once literally had a player deny me line of sight in a league game and turn around the next turn and say the same unit could see me although I couldn't see him when neither unit moved. He wanted to dice off the argument. I conceded the game, packed up my models, and went home.

I get your spirit of it and I agree with that. As for the rules updates that is another thing that keeps me struggling to keep up. Major rule changes and points reshuffled week one of a new codex. I literally can't keep up.

[bigbadbalou]

Well, that's simply bad sportsmanship at its finess. I would not like to play against someone like this at all and would have probably do the same had I faced someone like that.

I remember when I started wh40k and knew nothing of the rules of the other codices. A friend of mine had way more experience from like when he started in the second or third edition. He was basically the reference for rules (that was back when USR was a thing). So we were asking him when a unit had a USR and he knew the answer faster than us searching in the core book. After a while, and since he was always winning with rules poping out of nowhere each time, I decided to search more in depth and borrowed his codex to check a thing or two. Turned out he was basically adding some rules to his units because he tough it would have been normal for his army to have them like in previous editions. And when it was our ability that was asked for, he was diminishing the impact and the range of the ability we had. Or simply, we had a situation where a rule (that we didn't knew) had to be used. If it was helping it, he would say it and use it. If it was helping us, he would just not say it and keep playing.

That's when i started to read and check rules for most codex, to be sure there would not be an opponent who would do the same again.

But now, like you said, it's so crazy to keep track of our own tyranid codex, even less so to keep track of the other armies. There are FAQs, addendum, erratas... and then there was the rules from the side books like octarius or the other one I forgot... You almost cannot play a fair game with an opponnent with only the codex of your army alone these times... and thats a real bummer.

[mattblowers]

Mar 10, 2023 2:07:03 GMT bigbadbalou said:

But now, like you said, it's so crazy to keep track of our own tyranid codex, even less so to keep track of the other armies. There are FAQs, addendum, erratas... and then there was the rules from the side books like octarius or the other one I forgot... You almost cannot play a fair game with an opponnent with only the codex of your army alone these times... and thats a real bummer.

There's an event tomorrow that I considered attending but this right here made me decide to stay home.

[trashcan01]

Mar 10, 2023 2:07:03 GMT bigbadbalou said:

You almost cannot play a fair game with an opponnent with only the codex of your army alone these times... and thats a real bummer.

Everyone makes mistakes from time to time and I wouln't agree to this. Yes, GW has some strange wording, some strong stratagems, units and rules, but if something feels overpowered I kindly ask my opponent to show it to me in his/her codex or at least to tell me the full name of the ability so I can check it for myself. It is easily checked nowdays through Bscribe, WHpedia etc.

[bigbadbalou]

What i meant to say is that if you bring only your codex to a game and no other stuff from GW, you will have to play by the rules that are written in it only. But if you want to play competitive or with the rules up to date as modified by GW, then you need to bring your codex, the faqs, the addentum, the erratum, sometimes the supplements too etc... Which is quite a lot if, lets say, you don't have a cell phone (which is still possible by the way) and want to play a faire game by GW standards. If you play with only the codex of your army, it risk being unfair at some point (whether your army is too powerfull or less powerfull depends on how it was written when it was published) compared to other armies.

The same is true for most armies. So to keep up with all the stuff from every army is almost impossible at some points.