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Post by dkng on Aug 15, 2022 10:06:24 GMT
Last weekend I saw a similar list in action and the board presence was awesome. The difference was that instead of Harpy, Horms and Stealers it had another 9 Warriors and some more Biovores and a single Pyro. I thought I'll try a bit more utility and flexibility and came up with this: ++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Tyranids) [95 PL, 2,000pts, 3CP] +++ Configuration +Battle Size [6CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Detachment Command CostGametype: 4. Chapter Approved: War Zone Nephilim Hive Fleet: (Feed) Unstoppable Swarm, Leviathan + Stratagems +Rarefied Enhancements [-2CP]: 2x Extra Bio-artefact + No Force Org Slot +Tyrant Guard [8 PL, 120pts]. 3x Tyrant Guard (Scything): 3x Two Rending Claws, 3x Two Scything Talons Zoanthropes [7 PL, 150pts]: Power: Psychic Scream, 3x Zoanthrope + HQ +Neurothrope [5 PL, 100pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Onslaught, Power: Smite . Relic: Resonance Barb: Power: Paroxysm Neurothrope [5 PL, 100pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Onslaught, Power: Smite Winged Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 230pts, -1CP]: Adrenal Glands, Lash Whip and Monstrous Bonesword, Power: Psychic Scream, Power: The Horror, Relic: The Reaper of Obilterax, Stratagem: Warlord Trait, Toxin Sacs, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Adaptive Biology + Troops +Hormagaunts [4 PL, 80pts]. 10x Hormagaunt: 10x Hormagaunt Talons Tyranid Warriors [12 PL, 305pts]: Adrenal Glands, Flesh Hooks . Tyranid Warrior: Lash Whip and Bonesword, Venom Cannon . Tyranid Warrior: Dual Boneswords, Venom Cannon . Tyranid Warrior: Dual Boneswords, Venom Cannon . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords Tyranid Warriors [12 PL, 305pts]: Adrenal Glands, Flesh Hooks . Tyranid Warrior: Lash Whip and Bonesword, Venom Cannon . Tyranid Warrior: Dual Boneswords, Venom Cannon . Tyranid Warrior: Dual Boneswords, Venom Cannon . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords + Elites +Genestealers [5 PL, 80pts]. 5x Genestealer: 5x Genestealer Claws and Talons Venomthropes [5 PL, 105pts]. 3x Venomthrope: 3x Toxic Lashes Zoanthropes [7 PL, 150pts]: Power: Neuroparasite, 3x Zoanthrope + Heavy Support +Biovores [3 PL, 45pts]: Biovore + Flyer +Harpy [11 PL, 230pts]: 2x Heavy Venom Cannon, Adaptive Physiology: Dermic Symbiosis ++ Total: [95 PL, 3CP, 2,000pts] ++Created with BattleScribeHarpy will more often than not start in reserves. As the list has only two anti-tank targets, starting with her on the board would mean a quick demise. I'd rather use her as a counter to advancing enemy armor or flyers. I'm just wondering if swapping her for a Mal would be a better idea. Mal's SI is very useful but I lose my only AT firepower and reactivity. Time will tell. Other ideas are 5 Warriors and a PoM or another 10 Horms. Or 4 Warriors and a Deathleaper. Warriors with PoM seem most useful as both those units have Synapse. Genestealers' role is obvious. Depending on Obj placement they can be used more offensively to gum up opponent's works or passively to quickly rasie a banner on a close-by point. In mission 11 they are simply mandatory. Broodlord would also do the trick and is a caster to boot but also gives more VPs to the enemy and is a fourth HQ which doesn't fit into Batallion - I prefer two Neuros and definitely can't give up the Flyrant. Horms are there to screen and to dash forward on an Objective with a quick flanking manouver. A single Biovore is the best way to spend 45 leftover points. Sitting on a backfield Obj and seeding mines here and there is definitely worth it. Any thoughts lads? |
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Post by piersonsmuppet on Aug 15, 2022 15:26:33 GMT
Don’t be afraid of the BL, you’re perfectly safe from assassinate and Abhor. Any decent opponent will see the Neurothropes and not even bother counting them when determining how much VP they can score. I think 1 BL is more pts effective to cover mission 11 & pyshic secondaries than a Neuro/GS combo. The BL also helps boost Synaptic Insight as a viable choice when needed.
I also think 2x Harpies are needed with the Warrior blobs. If an army can just sit back and score secondaries (Necron, Ork, Knights), then you don’t have much play to interact with them on certain missions/terrain setups.
So Neuro->BL, GS & Zoan 2 -> Harpy maybe? Also I suggest a look at Perfectly Adapted instead of Adaptive Biology on the Reaper. If the Reaper doesn’t kill what it hits, probably dead anyway. Perfectly gives some more guarantee to the bomb nature of the Reaper, rr Adv or Charge has been money in my most recent test. When hanging back, you also get a free rr for psychic secondary attempts. Maybe it’s just my playstyle, but I found it even better on the Reaper Flyrant than the Shardgullet Flyrant.
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Post by dkng on Aug 15, 2022 17:18:43 GMT
Thanks for the input. I've seen your list and can clearly see your advice are steering my list towards yours  I've decided on double Neuro basically for one reason - reliable Hive Nexus. On a 9-strong blob of Warriors 5++ and Catalyst is simply golden. And that's why I can't afford a BL. Neuro is also a backup Interrogate / Ritual caster in case the Tyrant dies (btw did we get an answer on the question if the Warlord's death prevents HN from being used?) and I still want my Catalyst and Onslaught in such a case. In a pinch I can use the HT to cast Horror for more reliable CPs from Interrogate from a +2 Neuro. And if I were to do anything with the Harpy I'd gladly swap it for something else but I dont know what. Mal? Some Warriors and a Biovore? 5 Raveners and some Rippers to screen or sit on Obj? |
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Post by piersonsmuppet on Aug 15, 2022 19:02:44 GMT
If you want to take banners, I’d take a Mal. This lets your Warriors Advance, Action, and Shoot to make up for your lack of troop bodies or 300 pts not shooting.
If not, I’d opt for Ravs. They let you apply pressure to scoring bodies and can help with scoring VP like Engage.
Also, not necessarily trying to steer your towards my list (i do have 2x Zoan and much less Wars). I just think the second Harpy does more for you than the second Zoan unit since you can use Warriors to pressure Objs (instead of counter pressure like me).
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Post by dkng on Aug 19, 2022 20:34:43 GMT
Here's an alternative I can field with my models, without the Harpy. It trades firepower of the Harpy for quickness of PoM backed up by the Raveners. Now the list basically invalidates any AT enemy brings but also gives out more for No Prisoners. I'll try both versions but I think I like the new one more. The addition of BSs on Warriors seemed to be the best way to spend 10 leftover points - its a great weapon against blobs and can add to DSs shots vs other targets. Trading ap for str isn't the best trade around but those points are better spent here than on Horms ToxinSacs. ++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Tyranids) [96 PL, 2,000pts, 3CP] +++ Configuration +Battle Size [6CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Detachment Command CostGametype: 4. Chapter Approved: War Zone Nephilim Hive Fleet: (Feed) Unstoppable Swarm, Leviathan + Stratagems +Rarefied Enhancements [-2CP]: 2x Extra Bio-artefact + No Force Org Slot +Tyrant Guard [8 PL, 120pts]. 3x Tyrant Guard (Scything): 3x Two Rending Claws, 3x Two Scything Talons Zoanthropes [7 PL, 150pts]: Power: Psychic Scream, 3x Zoanthrope + HQ +Neurothrope [5 PL, 100pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Onslaught, Power: Smite . Relic: Resonance Barb: Power: Paroxysm Neurothrope [5 PL, 100pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Onslaught, Power: Smite Winged Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 230pts, -1CP]: Adrenal Glands, Lash Whip and Monstrous Bonesword, Power: Psychic Scream, Power: The Horror, Relic: The Reaper of Obilterax, Stratagem: Warlord Trait, Toxin Sacs, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Adaptive Biology + Troops +Hormagaunts [4 PL, 80pts]. 10x Hormagaunt: 10x Hormagaunt Talons Tyranid Warriors [12 PL, 310pts]: Adrenal Glands, Flesh Hooks . Tyranid Warrior: Lash Whip and Bonesword, Venom Cannon . Tyranid Warrior: Dual Boneswords, Venom Cannon . Tyranid Warrior: Dual Boneswords, Venom Cannon . Tyranid Warrior: Barbed Strangler, Dual Boneswords . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords Tyranid Warriors [12 PL, 310pts]: Adrenal Glands, Flesh Hooks . Tyranid Warrior: Lash Whip and Bonesword, Venom Cannon . Tyranid Warrior: Dual Boneswords, Venom Cannon . Tyranid Warrior: Dual Boneswords, Venom Cannon . Tyranid Warrior: Barbed Strangler, Dual Boneswords . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords + Elites +Genestealers [5 PL, 80pts]. 5x Genestealer: 5x Genestealer Claws and Talons Venomthropes [5 PL, 105pts]. 3x Venomthrope: 3x Toxic Lashes Zoanthropes [7 PL, 150pts]: Power: Neuroparasite, 3x Zoanthrope + Fast Attack +Parasite of Mortrex [4 PL, 80pts]Raveners [8 PL, 140pts]. Ravener: Two Rending Claws . Ravener: Two Rending Claws . Ravener: Two Rending Claws . Ravener: Two Rending Claws + Heavy Support +Biovores [3 PL, 45pts]: Biovore ++ Total: [96 PL, 3CP, 2,000pts] ++Created with BattleScribe |
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Post by piersonsmuppet on Aug 19, 2022 22:27:46 GMT
What’s the reasoning behind leaving off Gestation Sac and/or Alien Cunning from the PoM? Both give it good scoring capability in addition to disruption, I think it could be worth it to include at least one (barring a specific plan you have in mind).
Edit: Also what are your thoughts on trading the GS & 1 Neuro for a BL and another Bio / Rav?
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Post by dkng on Aug 20, 2022 5:56:44 GMT
CP pool. People keep on saying Nids are not CP dependant but with big Warriors blobs you will use 2 CPs on RHN because they will get under heavy, multidamage fire. Same goes for the Flyrant - if you need to be sure that a target will be dead for him to use Overrun you want the Trampling and most importantly Adrenal strats to go off. PoM is there to extend Synaptic range to for example Ravs and as a backup action monkey. It can zip around raising banners leaving Warriors to fight.
Reasoning behind the BL is more or less the same - lack of second Neuro would force me to take Tendrils wlt as I want at least two units casting on 3d6. Maybe one day I will take the BL and afterwards never leave home without one but this would require a further redesign of the list.
Thanks for the input and please criticise as much as you can - your feedback is always welcome.
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Post by dkng on Sept 1, 2022 19:17:24 GMT
What’s the reasoning behind leaving off Gestation Sac and/or Alien Cunning from the PoM? Both give it good scoring capability in addition to disruption, I think it could be worth it to include at least one (barring a specific plan you have in mind). Edit: Also what are your thoughts on trading the GS & 1 Neuro for a BL and another Bio / Rav? Erm... as I already got Reaper and Barb I can't really take a third relic as the extra relic strat can only be taken twice for a Strikeforce mission XD it seems (at least according to BattleScribe) that you can have 3 wlts in total but only two relics XD |
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Post by piersonsmuppet on Sept 1, 2022 19:40:53 GMT
Erm... as I already got Reaper and Barb I can't really take a third relic as the extra relic strat can only be taken twice for a Strikeforce mission XD it seems (at least according to BattleScribe) that you can have 3 wlts in total but only two relics XD Nephilim's Relic stratagem allows a 3rd Relic in Strikeforce sized missions. You may need to change the game type to Matched Play: Nephilim to see the Stratagem. |
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Post by dkng on Sept 1, 2022 19:43:51 GMT
True, there is a "strat" called Relic and then you can use Rarefind Enhancements twice. Still if you'd have to choose between Sac and AC for PoM which would you go for and why?
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Post by piersonsmuppet on Sept 1, 2022 20:06:43 GMT
Well, I think it depends on if you want to favor taking BEL (Sac) or Banners (AC). BEL is a weak pick for you now, so improving it for matchups like Necrons, Orks, and Knights (who push into you) could be good. Banners is already good for you, so AC doesn't add a lot there for when it is bad. However, you can deny primary easier and lets you get away with less optimal secondary picks.
I would personally choose Sac because I like more options for secondaries, as that's where I've found I'll win/lose close games. If I'm winning on Primary, I'll probably win by a wide margin.
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Post by toretyrann on Sept 5, 2022 20:18:23 GMT
Sorry I am new to tyranids and to 40K. What is the role of the genestealers? Forward deploy to hold early objetives?
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Post by dkng on Sept 5, 2022 21:43:20 GMT
Sorry I am new to tyranids and to 40K. What is the role of the genestealers? Forward deploy to hold early objetives? In short - yes  Most of the time you use Broodlord for this but as I decided to go double Neuro I can't fit him in so I take Stealers. There is a mission in Nephilim where you can only gain CPs when you control objectives outside of your deployment. In others they can deploy on an objective and for example raise the banner on it so Warriors won't have to bother and will focus on advancing and killing. |
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Post by toretyrann on Sept 10, 2022 5:03:52 GMT
Sorry I am new to tyranids and to 40K. What is the role of the genestealers? Forward deploy to hold early objetives? In short - yes Most of the time you use Broodlord for this but as I decided to go double Neuro I can't fit him in so I take Stealers. There is a mission in Nephilim where you can only gain CPs when you control objectives outside of your deployment. In others they can deploy on an objective and for example raise the banner on it so Warriors won't have to bother and will focus on advancing and killing. Ok thx! Really appreciate your detailed answer! |
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Post by dkng on Sept 18, 2022 11:31:55 GMT
Ok so this is the version I'm going to play with in the autumn league at my local store. Including the Gestation Sac on the PoM will open up BEL on some of the missions. Starting with one CP can be rough but I really want Direct Guidance to bump up Warriors damage output - hitting on 2s with rerolling 1s (from HT) is too good to pass. Same can be said about flanking Raveners if you really want these Devastators or Broadsides dead right here and now. Doubling up on some powers as most of the time the ResBarb Neuro will be interrogating from the second turn onwards and I still want HN, Cata and Paroxysm to go off. Onslaught is not as mandatory as those beyond turn 1 when most probably the HT will attempt to Interrogate. Plan for the secondaries is simple - PsyInt and RtBH basically every time with the third chosen from BEL, Cranial or one of the killing ones. ++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Tyranids) [96 PL, 2,000pts, 1CP] +++ Configuration +Battle Size [6CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Detachment Command CostGame Type: 4. Chapter Approved: War Zone Nephilim Hive Fleet: (Feed) Unstoppable Swarm, Leviathan + Stratagems +Hive Predator [-1CP]: Extra Warlord Trait Rarefied Enhancements [-2CP]: 2x Extra Bio-artefact Relic [-1CP]+ No Force Org Slot +Tyrant Guard [8 PL, 120pts]. 3x Tyrant Guard (Scything): 3x Two Rending Claws, 3x Two Scything Talons Zoanthropes [7 PL, 150pts]: Power: Psychic Scream, 3x Zoanthrope + HQ +Neurothrope [5 PL, 100pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Onslaught, Power: Smite, Warlord Trait: Direct Guidance . Relic: Resonance Barb: Power: Paroxysm Neurothrope [5 PL, 100pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Onslaught, Power: Smite Winged Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 230pts, -1CP]: Adrenal Glands, Lash Whip and Monstrous Bonesword, Power: Paroxysm, Power: Psychic Scream, Relic: The Reaper of Obilterax, Stratagem: Warlord Trait, Toxin Sacs, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Perfectly Adapted + Troops +Hormagaunts [4 PL, 80pts]. 10x Hormagaunt: 10x Hormagaunt Talons Tyranid Warriors [12 PL, 310pts]: Adrenal Glands, Flesh Hooks . Tyranid Warrior: Lash Whip and Bonesword, Venom Cannon . Tyranid Warrior: Dual Boneswords, Venom Cannon . Tyranid Warrior: Dual Boneswords, Venom Cannon . Tyranid Warrior: Barbed Strangler, Dual Boneswords . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords Tyranid Warriors [12 PL, 310pts]: Adrenal Glands, Flesh Hooks . Tyranid Warrior: Lash Whip and Bonesword, Venom Cannon . Tyranid Warrior: Dual Boneswords, Venom Cannon . Tyranid Warrior: Dual Boneswords, Venom Cannon . Tyranid Warrior: Barbed Strangler, Dual Boneswords . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Dual Boneswords + Elites +Genestealers [5 PL, 80pts]. 5x Genestealer: 5x Genestealer Claws and Talons Venomthropes [5 PL, 105pts]. 3x Venomthrope: 3x Toxic Lashes Zoanthropes [7 PL, 150pts]: Power: Neuroparasite, 3x Zoanthrope + Fast Attack +Parasite of Mortrex [4 PL, 80pts]: Relic: Gestation Sac Raveners [8 PL, 140pts]. Ravener: Two Rending Claws . Ravener: Two Rending Claws . Ravener: Two Rending Claws . Ravener: Two Rending Claws + Heavy Support +Biovores [3 PL, 45pts]: Biovore ++ Total: [96 PL, 1CP, 2,000pts] ++Created with BattleScribe |
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