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Post by bugsy on Jun 23, 2022 15:52:07 GMT
Sorry guys, I kept reloading the download section of the warhammer community site and way wondering why nothing showed up.
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Post by Jbizzy on Jun 23, 2022 15:56:49 GMT
This is just insane. Every army facing Tyranids will have one simple goal - snipe the warlord asap. And forcing HT to be the warlord is fkn stupid. The heroes of humanity have to have some sort of heroic easy win over the alien menace.  |
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Post by nameless on Jun 23, 2022 16:04:25 GMT
They have set us up so if you take second Tyrant aka Reaper Flyrant in a second detachment (patrol) you start on zero CP. I wonder if some people will just say YOLO and do it anyway Why does it start with 0? Wouldn't it start with 3 (-2 patrol, -1 relic) I don't really see why forcing a hive tyrant to be the warlock is stupid. It does make a lot of sense; people always yell for fluffy rules, well, here's one. This will take some adjustments, for sure, but not the end of the world. Either you take a walking one for 2cp, make sure the one is protected with guards and overrun, or just know that the most important imperatives are done in T1/2 Overall, I think we're still going be a really solid book. I'm not sure Hail of Doom got enough of a nerf, but Tau got a big one which are our two most problematic matchups. Some point hikes were too much or didn't need to happen (i.e. Malacepter, exocrine, deathleaper, crone) Point decreases should have happened on gaunt/gant/genesteelers The warriors getting 5 points base increase should have been on wargear (i.e. BS/DS) The adaptive part was dumb to lose; not a huge deal most of the time though We've always been well suited for the CP change; the relics and warlord traits are more often than not, nice to have, rather than required. I feel like a lot of these changes make things a lot less automatic and you've really got to think if it's worth it to do the thing or not. Big, important choices are what this game is all about. |
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Post by dkng on Jun 23, 2022 16:05:08 GMT
This is just insane. Every army facing Tyranids will have one simple goal - snipe the warlord asap. And forcing HT to be the warlord is fkn stupid. The heroes of humanity have to have some sort of heroic easy win over the alien menace. Not funny  if you want to include a Tyrant, you're basically locking 350+ points as only an imbecile will let a Tyrant start the battle without TGs around. Tbh I'm thinking about no-Tyrant lists atm as the way to go. All those point increases didnt piss me off as hard as this change in the dataslate - the increases were right, if somewhat harsh in some instances but still bearable but this change is like tying our hands behind our backs. Ughhh :/ |
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Post by Jbizzy on Jun 23, 2022 16:19:08 GMT
The heroes of humanity have to have some sort of heroic easy win over the alien menace. Not funny if you want to include a Tyrant, you're basically locking 350+ points as only an imbecile will let a Tyrant start the battle without TGs around. Tbh I'm thinking about no-Tyrant lists atm as the way to go. All those point increases didnt piss me off as hard as this change in the dataslate - the increases were right, if somewhat harsh in some instances but still bearable but this change is like tying our hands behind our backs. Ughhh :/ Well I've never been a fan of Tyrants (even though I have 4 like most players because of 7th), they are just too good have them not get focused down by your opponent. Multiples Tyrants and Tyrant guard helped keep them fighting but that point sink is just too much now! Neuro Warlord and Tyranid Prime will be my go to HQs with Maelceptor + Zoans for more psychics. Should allow me room to spam warriors, HVC fexes and Fleshborer Hive T-Fex in Kronos list. |
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Post by stormcoil on Jun 23, 2022 16:54:27 GMT
As others have mentioned I think that now a hive tyrant has to come with tyrant guard. Not only do you risk losing imperatives, there are missions where you only generate cp if your warlord is on the battlefield. Now with nephilim the generation of cp every turn matters a lot more, so you need your warlord alive and kicking.
I am looking at trying to make a battalion led by double neurothrope work now. This gives you more starting cp and also lets you protect your warlord.
I think hive tyrant builds can still work. But they require a very large investment of your force to include.
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Post by acehilator on Jun 23, 2022 17:16:57 GMT
This probably limits winged HTs to Levi, to make sure all AT weapons only wound on 4s. All other Hive Fleets want the Walkrant, I guess.
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Post by dkng on Jun 23, 2022 17:26:15 GMT
Neuro Warlord and Tyranid Prime will be my go to HQs with Maelceptor + Zoans for more psychics. Should allow me room to spam warriors, HVC fexes and Fleshborer Hive T-Fex in Kronos list. Basically this was my idea even before the "balance" with the difference of running Jorm and DSing Acidfexes |
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Post by Jbizzy on Jun 23, 2022 17:37:02 GMT
Neuro Warlord and Tyranid Prime will be my go to HQs with Maelceptor + Zoans for more psychics. Should allow me room to spam warriors, HVC fexes and Fleshborer Hive T-Fex in Kronos list. Basically this was my idea even before the "balance" with the difference of running Jorm and DSing Acidfexes Yeah yeah, my other list is exactly that with Jorm. But going to include some comedy Mawlocs flailing about as "fast attack" since I can't find raveners. |
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Post by bolk on Jun 23, 2022 17:40:31 GMT
So the balance data slate looks pretty seismic, way more oppressive to our style of play than anything that's come before it this edition. Hive Tyrants death means we lose all imperatives, also having a Tyrant means it has to be warlord. So playing a cavalier reaper flyrant has a massive downside. Also Adaptive is no longer...adaptive. You have to pick during your list building (mustering armies). For Matched play at least. I'm reeling a little, lol. Great, they have succeeded in ruining the most fun and fluffy army mechanic Tyranids have. |
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Post by bolk on Jun 23, 2022 17:44:41 GMT
They have set us up so if you take second Tyrant aka Reaper Flyrant in a second detachment (patrol) you start on zero CP. I wonder if some people will just say YOLO and do it anyway Why does it start with 0? Wouldn't it start with 3 (-2 patrol, -1 relic) I don't really see why forcing a hive tyrant to be the warlock is stupid. It does make a lot of sense; people always yell for fluffy rules, well, here's one. This will take some adjustments, for sure, but not the end of the world. Either you take a walking one for 2cp, make sure the one is protected with guards and overrun, or just know that the most important imperatives are done in T1/2 Overall, I think we're still going be a really solid book. I'm not sure Hail of Doom got enough of a nerf, but Tau got a big one which are our two most problematic matchups. Some point hikes were too much or didn't need to happen (i.e. Malacepter, exocrine, deathleaper, crone) Point decreases should have happened on gaunt/gant/genesteelers The warriors getting 5 points base increase should have been on wargear (i.e. BS/DS) The adaptive part was dumb to lose; not a huge deal most of the time though We've always been well suited for the CP change; the relics and warlord traits are more often than not, nice to have, rather than required. I feel like a lot of these changes make things a lot less automatic and you've really got to think if it's worth it to do the thing or not. Big, important choices are what this game is all about. Do other factions have the same restrictions where you're forced to choose a certain unit as Warlord and if said unit dies you lose your army mechanic? |
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Post by dkng on Jun 23, 2022 17:58:03 GMT
Why does it start with 0? Wouldn't it start with 3 (-2 patrol, -1 relic) I don't really see why forcing a hive tyrant to be the warlock is stupid. It does make a lot of sense; people always yell for fluffy rules, well, here's one. This will take some adjustments, for sure, but not the end of the world. Either you take a walking one for 2cp, make sure the one is protected with guards and overrun, or just know that the most important imperatives are done in T1/2 Overall, I think we're still going be a really solid book. I'm not sure Hail of Doom got enough of a nerf, but Tau got a big one which are our two most problematic matchups. Some point hikes were too much or didn't need to happen (i.e. Malacepter, exocrine, deathleaper, crone) Point decreases should have happened on gaunt/gant/genesteelers The warriors getting 5 points base increase should have been on wargear (i.e. BS/DS) The adaptive part was dumb to lose; not a huge deal most of the time though We've always been well suited for the CP change; the relics and warlord traits are more often than not, nice to have, rather than required. I feel like a lot of these changes make things a lot less automatic and you've really got to think if it's worth it to do the thing or not. Big, important choices are what this game is all about. Do other factions have the same restrictions where you're forced to choose a certain unit as Warlord and if said unit dies you lose your army mechanic? Lol I'll show you an example from the Necrons Before "balance": If every unit from your army (excluding DYNASTIC AGENT, C’TAN SHARD and UNALIGNED units) is from the same dynasty, and you select a NOBLE model to be your WARLORD, this unit is eligible to benefit from this ability and the following rules apply. After both sides have deployed, but before you have determined who will have the first turn, you must assign a different one of the command protocols below to each of the first five battle rounds, and note this down secretly on your army roster. Example: Matts army is led by an Overlord (a NOBLE), and every model in it is from the same dynasty, therefore he must assign command protocols. He selects the following, writing them down on his army roster: Battle Round 1 = 2 (Sudden Storm) Battle Round 2 = 3 (Vengeful Stars) Battle Round 3 = 5 (Undying Legions) Battle Round 4 = 4 (Hungry Void) Battle Round 5+ = 1 (Eternal Guardian) Designers Note: If you have a set of Necrons Datacards, you can instead assign your command protocols by selecting the five corresponding cards you wish to use and placing them in a face-down deck in an order such that - by turning over the top card at the start of each battle round - you reveal the command protocol that will be active for your army that battle round. At the start of each battle round, if any NOBLE units from your army are on the battlefield, the command protocol that you assigned to that battle round becomes active for your army until the end of that battle round. Each command protocol is made up of two directives. When a command protocol becomes active for your army, reveal it to your opponent and select one of its directives. Until the assigned command protocol stops being active, while a unit that is eligible to benefit from this ability is within 6" of a friendly NECRONS CHARACTER model (excluding C’TAN SHARD models), that unit benefits from the selected directive. If the battle lasts for more than five battle rounds, then until the end of the battle, whichever command protocol was active in the fifth battle round remains active. The available command protocols are show below. After "balance": Change the Command Protocols ability as follows: ■ Replace the Noble keyword in all instances with Necrons Character. ■ Replace the last sentence of the penultimate paragraph with: ‘Until the assigned command protocol stops being active, while a unit that is eligible to benefit from this ability is on the battlefield, that unit benefits from the selected directive.’ ■ Replace the last paragraph with: ‘In addition, if all units from your army are from the same dynasty (excluding Dynastic Agent, C’tan Shard and Unaligned units), select one command protocol that has not been assigned to a battle round (there will typically only be one). That command protocol is active in every battle round in addition to the one assigned to that battle round – select which directive your units will benefit from at the start of each battle round. Note that if this additional command protocol is the one described in your dynasty’s code, this means both of its directives apply to all units with this ability in your army in every battle round, in addition to the protocol assigned to that battle round. The available command protocols are shown below.’ Compare that to what they did with our Adaptive... Edit: I know Necrons were underperforming but still I feel slapped on the face. |
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Post by bolk on Jun 23, 2022 18:28:40 GMT
Do other factions have the same restrictions where you're forced to choose a certain unit as Warlord and if said unit dies you lose your army mechanic? Lol I'll show you an example from the Necrons Before "balance": If every unit from your army (excluding DYNASTIC AGENT, C’TAN SHARD and UNALIGNED units) is from the same dynasty, and you select a NOBLE model to be your WARLORD, this unit is eligible to benefit from this ability and the following rules apply. After both sides have deployed, but before you have determined who will have the first turn, you must assign a different one of the command protocols below to each of the first five battle rounds, and note this down secretly on your army roster. Example: Matts army is led by an Overlord (a NOBLE), and every model in it is from the same dynasty, therefore he must assign command protocols. He selects the following, writing them down on his army roster: Battle Round 1 = 2 (Sudden Storm) Battle Round 2 = 3 (Vengeful Stars) Battle Round 3 = 5 (Undying Legions) Battle Round 4 = 4 (Hungry Void) Battle Round 5+ = 1 (Eternal Guardian) Designers Note: If you have a set of Necrons Datacards, you can instead assign your command protocols by selecting the five corresponding cards you wish to use and placing them in a face-down deck in an order such that - by turning over the top card at the start of each battle round - you reveal the command protocol that will be active for your army that battle round. At the start of each battle round, if any NOBLE units from your army are on the battlefield, the command protocol that you assigned to that battle round becomes active for your army until the end of that battle round. Each command protocol is made up of two directives. When a command protocol becomes active for your army, reveal it to your opponent and select one of its directives. Until the assigned command protocol stops being active, while a unit that is eligible to benefit from this ability is within 6" of a friendly NECRONS CHARACTER model (excluding C’TAN SHARD models), that unit benefits from the selected directive. If the battle lasts for more than five battle rounds, then until the end of the battle, whichever command protocol was active in the fifth battle round remains active. The available command protocols are show below. After "balance": Change the Command Protocols ability as follows: ■ Replace the Noble keyword in all instances with Necrons Character. ■ Replace the last sentence of the penultimate paragraph with: ‘Until the assigned command protocol stops being active, while a unit that is eligible to benefit from this ability is on the battlefield, that unit benefits from the selected directive.’ ■ Replace the last paragraph with: ‘In addition, if all units from your army are from the same dynasty (excluding Dynastic Agent, C’tan Shard and Unaligned units), select one command protocol that has not been assigned to a battle round (there will typically only be one). That command protocol is active in every battle round in addition to the one assigned to that battle round – select which directive your units will benefit from at the start of each battle round. Note that if this additional command protocol is the one described in your dynasty’s code, this means both of its directives apply to all units with this ability in your army in every battle round, in addition to the protocol assigned to that battle round. The available command protocols are shown below.’ Compare that to what they did with our Adaptive... Edit: I know Necrons were underperforming but still I feel slapped on the face. Yeah, and this isn't even as bad as taking away the adaptive element of Hive Fleet Adaptations. They just took all the fun out of this army. |
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Post by dkng on Jun 23, 2022 18:36:47 GMT
Like I said before - point hikes were due and most of them were fair (still should be done differently in some cases like Warriors weapons instead of bodies themselves) but the dataslate just made the faction... sad and dull. Instead of fixing the real problem - Leviathan - they took away the fun in a very half-baked way. Stupid GW is stupid...
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Post by bolk on Jun 23, 2022 19:21:35 GMT
Like I said before - point hikes were due and most of them were fair (still should be done differently in some cases like Warriors weapons instead of bodies themselves) but the dataslate just made the faction... sad and dull. Instead of fixing the real problem - Leviathan - they took away the fun in a very half-baked way. Stupid GW is stupid... I agree, points increases were coming, but only increases (Maleceptor was a bit much) and no decreases didn't fix anything internal. And now this... The joy I felt when this codex dropped is just gone now. |
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if you want to include a Tyrant, you're basically locking 350+ points as only an imbecile will let a Tyrant start the battle without TGs around. Tbh I'm thinking about no-Tyrant lists atm as the way to go. All those point increases didnt piss me off as hard as this change in the dataslate - the increases were right, if somewhat harsh in some instances but still bearable but this change is like tying our hands behind our backs. Ughhh :/