4 scything talon Hive Tyrant. Legal build?

[beastoftanagra]

I got a Hive Tyrant kit that included two of the sheets necessary to build a leg tyrant instead of one sheet for legs and the second sheet with wings and stuff. I didn’t mind because I was trying to build a leg tyrant anyways and this actually left me with the parts to build a whole second leg tyrant, just with some limited arm options.

I built a hive tyrant with four scything talon arms, and I have no regrets because it looks great. The question is, can I actually play this under the rules?

The 9th Ed codex says it comes equipped with a pair of scything talons and a lash whip/bonesword, but doesn’t list scything talons as something you can replace the lash whip/bonesword with. I say it’s implied to be okay, but I can see the objection as this would be 9 attacks at AP-3, D3 for 160 points.

What do you think?

[purestrain]

No, it's not, unfortunately.

[yoritomo]

Sadly it is not legal. If the datalsate does not give you the option you cannot do it.

While you cannot play the model “as is” there are ways you may still be able to field the model.

If your opponent is okay with it you can run him as a normal bonesword and talon tyrant, you just only attack with the talons (7 attacks total).

You could also proxy him as a swarmlord. That would give you your 9 attacks, though he would be more expensive than 160 points.

[dkng]

I have always imagined Tyranids as primitive, savage animals. All those Boneswords and hand-held guns just dont look good. They should all be just Talons and Claws with a sprinkle of shooting in form of acid-puking maws and oddities like Biovores. Fluff-wise, Tyrants and Warriors armed with swords in a human fashion and Tyrranofexes with Rupture Cannons are just bad design. A muscle spasm generating more force than a Battle cannon or a multi-melta? Duuuh.
Back to OP - play him as a Swarmlord wannabe or just break off the arms and make him a proper Gullet-rant. The only real use for Scytals is a Flyrant with Searhive relic.

[infornography]

May 16, 2022 14:30:08 GMT dkng said:

I have always imagined Tyranids as primitive, savage animals. All those Boneswords and hand-held guns just dont look good. They should all be just Talons and Claws with a sprinkle of shooting in form of acid-puking maws and oddities like Biovores. Fluff-wise, Tyrants and Warriors armed with swords in a human fashion and Tyrranofexes with Rupture Cannons are just bad design. A muscle spasm generating more force than a Battle cannon or a multi-melta? Duuuh.

I kind of agree and kind of disagree.

Aesthetically, I much prefer ranged weapon systems to be more integrated or connected to the torso like the 'vores, Exocrine, Raveners, and scythed Heirodule. Handheld ranged weapons always seemed like an absurd anthropomorphism, though I do recognize that for many guns, putting them on a limb that can provide more fine control would lead to better ability to aim. In those cases I would rather the gun BE the arm than be held by it. I do kind of like the aesthetic of weapons being symbiotes rather than integrated sometimes because it would allow for the same bioform to be equipped differently. I just wish those symbiotes didn't look like pistols and rifles.

As for the logic of having things like "muscle spasms" able to propel a projectile at ballistic velocities, I would encourage you to look up things like the pistol shrimp. Yeah, that isn't a projectile, but it is such a fast movement that it creates a miniature sonic boom that superheats the water and creates a cavitation bubble in the water. Similar mechanisms could be engineered by Norn Queens to propel projectiles instead of weaponizing the water in front of them. I am willing to accept the concept of biological projectiles, just not thrilled with the visual design of them.

[beastoftanagra]

May 16, 2022 14:30:08 GMT dkng said:

I have always imagined Tyranids as primitive, savage animals. All those Boneswords and hand-held guns just dont look good. They should all be just Talons and Claws with a sprinkle of shooting in form of acid-puking maws and oddities like Biovores. Fluff-wise, Tyrants and Warriors armed with swords in a human fashion and Tyrranofexes with Rupture Cannons are just bad design. A muscle spasm generating more force than a Battle cannon or a multi-melta? Duuuh.
Back to OP - play him as a Swarmlord wannabe or just break off the arms and make him a proper Gullet-rant. The only real use for Scytals is a Flyrant with Searhive relic.

That’s exactly how I feel. I like my Tyranids looking like aliens. I like the look of Hormagaunts over Termagants and Genestealers, Devourers over Deathspitters, and Scything Talons over Boneswords. Unfortunately it seems that the stuff I like is just far less effective in matched play.

Sigh… what can you do.

[dkng]

May 16, 2022 14:45:28 GMT infornography said:

May 16, 2022 14:30:08 GMT dkng said:

I have always imagined Tyranids as primitive, savage animals. All those Boneswords and hand-held guns just dont look good. They should all be just Talons and Claws with a sprinkle of shooting in form of acid-puking maws and oddities like Biovores. Fluff-wise, Tyrants and Warriors armed with swords in a human fashion and Tyrranofexes with Rupture Cannons are just bad design. A muscle spasm generating more force than a Battle cannon or a multi-melta? Duuuh.

I kind of agree and kind of disagree.

Aesthetically, I much prefer ranged weapon systems to be more integrated or connected to the torso like the 'vores, Exocrine, Raveners, and scythed Heirodule. Handheld ranged weapons always seemed like an absurd anthropomorphism, though I do recognize that for many guns, putting them on a limb that can provide more fine control would lead to better ability to aim. In those cases I would rather the gun BE the arm than be held by it. I do kind of like the aesthetic of weapons being symbiotes rather than integrated sometimes because it would allow for the same bioform to be equipped differently. I just wish those symbiotes didn't look like pistols and rifles.

As for the logic of having things like "muscle spasms" able to propel a projectile at ballistic velocities, I would encourage you to look up things like the pistol shrimp. Yeah, that isn't a projectile, but it is such a fast movement that it creates a miniature sonic boom that superheats the water and creates a cavitation bubble in the water. Similar mechanisms could be engineered by Norn Queens to propel projectiles instead of weaponizing the water in front of them. I am willing to accept the concept of biological projectiles, just not thrilled with the visual design of them.

Oh dude now I like you

That’s exactly what I thought. English is not my first so I cant elaborate as nicely as you had it. The thing I dislike the most about Tyranids design is that they are... erm... humanised. Swords, hand held rifles, come on! Like... Venom cannons or Acid spray look ok but Deathspitters or Fleshborers are just... lazy design. They should be alien, not familiar. Scythed Hierodule is a great example of what Im talking, shame they didnt do something similar with Termagants. Just placing the gun on their backs or inside maws would be awesome and still visually distinguishable for game purposes. Boneswords could be swapped for claws - not bulky ones, like on Carnifexes, but more sleek, similar to those on Slaanesh Daemonettes.
And as for the Pistol Shrimp - this is a matter of scale. The larger the animal the more water viscosity, resistance and inertia become important Rippers could use this effect but Tyrranofex - not so much

[stormguard]

I’ve done one of these in 8th Ed, but the New Codex says a Big No, unfortunately as I really do like it.

SG.