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Post by nameless on May 15, 2022 2:43:16 GMT
I think there is only 2 ways (death guard warlord trait and ad mec) plus characters doing actions (which doesn’t happen that often). I think you’re vastly over stating “a lot of ways to turn off auras”
AdMec is a stratagem:
So, I would assume if this was done on warriors, that they would be affected by their own aura (would hurt non-synapse units though)
This would turn off a warriors fearless.
Not sure if there is anything else. If it is just those two, that is extremely limited. Do Admec lists ever take the fliers(I've never played vs them)?
Edit: I guess there is a lot more:
Dark Angel one is a psychic power but not often taken (and not that great
And a bunch of others mentioned below.
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Post by piersonsmuppet on May 15, 2022 4:53:02 GMT
There's a lot of ways to turn off auras: feels like most Codexes have at least one now, and doing an action turns it off for Chars. I've never had that matter though, and Synapse/gribblies feel even less relevant now, so...meh. What is your definition for a lot? I think only 4-5 factions can turn off auras, and most of those abilities are unit locked, expensive (2CP), or only available to a character as a specific sub-factions wlt/relic. Also, if they are relying on morale to be able to kill a 10-man unit of Horms, I think you are going to win…
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Post by No One on May 15, 2022 7:24:21 GMT
What is your definition for a lot? I think only 4-5 factions can turn off auras, and most of those abilities are unit locked, expensive (2CP), or only available to a character as a specific sub-factions wlt/relic. Also, if they are relying on morale to be able to kill a 10-man unit of Horms, I think you are going to win… I didn't say relevant ones, hence me commenting that I've never had it matter, and doubt it'll matter in the future. Sisters have, GSC have, DA have, Harleys have, DE have, Tau have, CSM have, daemons have, GK have, aforementioned AdMech and DG. No idea on new knights (either), wouldn't be surprised if they had as well, and it's possible I missed something. Are these generally bad, either because unreliable (especially into us, with 3d6 ld checks being common), difficulty connecting, cost, or associated with a bad unit/option? Yes. Might you run into a DA list and have Synapse turned off by mind wipe, or sanctus perils and get lucky, or someone running Morty have a zone of 'no fearless for you'? Also yes. Does this matter? Not really: morale just isn't that huge a deal. Do Admec lists ever take the fliers(I've never played vs them)? They're (most of) the reason aircraft are max two, though they're nerfed now. Usually with the -1 D over the electro-filament though, but I think lists used to run it as a one-of sometimes for the strat access. Now, I'd be very surprised to ever see that taken.
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Post by bolk on May 15, 2022 8:36:40 GMT
Nothing changed with Synapse, it just got a helpful tag to remind people that it's an aura, which GW leave off half the time. It's always met the criteria for being an aura, it's always been an aura. Was it? It looked intentional as SitW was tagged as an aura, but not Synapse. And it felt very cool with how the lore works and as an unique trait for Tyranids. Synapse isn't something you can turn off except for killing the Synapse creatures. I guess the same could be said for SitW though. But now it's just another Aura. This is the one thing in the FAQ I found as a joykiller. No, it probably won't matter much in games since there aren't many ways to turn it off, though I suspect the factions that can will start taking/using it more often now.
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Post by No One on May 15, 2022 12:28:07 GMT
Was it? It looked intentional as SitW was tagged as an aura, but not Synapse. And it felt very cool with how the lore works and as an unique trait for Tyranids. Synapse isn't something you can turn off except for killing the Synapse creatures. I guess the same could be said for SitW though. But now it's just another Aura. This is the one thing in the FAQ I found as a joykiller. No, it probably won't matter much in games since there aren't many ways to turn it off, though I suspect the factions that can will start taking/using it more often now. Aura: A rule that is classified as an aura can affect multiple models or units that meet its criteria and are within a set distance of the model it is on (including that model itself). If a model is within range of multiple auras with the same name, it can only be affected by one of those rules at any one time (see Aura Abilities). That's the definition of an aura. Do you meet that? Yes, aura. Does Synapse meet that? Yes, it was always an aura, this just puts some extra letters in. The only exception is if it specifically says otherwise, like imperatives. This is just another thing of GW being inconsistent with what they remember to stick it on. Heck no, unless they're already taking them they're not going to start just because they can still turn off Synapse.
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Post by bolk on May 15, 2022 13:55:50 GMT
Was it? It looked intentional as SitW was tagged as an aura, but not Synapse. And it felt very cool with how the lore works and as an unique trait for Tyranids. Synapse isn't something you can turn off except for killing the Synapse creatures. I guess the same could be said for SitW though. But now it's just another Aura. This is the one thing in the FAQ I found as a joykiller. No, it probably won't matter much in games since there aren't many ways to turn it off, though I suspect the factions that can will start taking/using it more often now. Aura: A rule that is classified as an aura can affect multiple models or units that meet its criteria and are within a set distance of the model it is on (including that model itself). If a model is within range of multiple auras with the same name, it can only be affected by one of those rules at any one time (see Aura Abilities). That's the definition of an aura. Do you meet that? Yes, aura. Does Synapse meet that? Yes, it was always an aura, this just puts some extra letters in. The only exception is if it specifically says otherwise, like imperatives. This is just another thing of GW being inconsistent with what they remember to stick it on. Heck no, unless they're already taking them they're not going to start just because they can still turn off Synapse. *sigh* Yes, I bloody well know what an aura is in this game. I'm talking about an exception for Tyranids as an unique trait for the faction. Only way to turn off Synapse and SitW would be to kill the Synapse creatures. But fun and fluffy factors in a game, gods forbid... Won't they? Maybe not, but the meta will change since Tyranids are strong now, and shutting off our Fearless mechanic on our low leadership bugs will make a big difference in a game.
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Post by piersonsmuppet on May 15, 2022 15:53:25 GMT
I'm talking about an exception for Tyranids as an unique trait for the faction. Only way to turn off Synapse and SitW would be to kill the Synapse creatures. But fun and fluffy factors in a game, gods forbid... Problem is flat out ignoring is just too powerful gameplay-wise with the buffs we can layer onto Synapse (or character protection). Synapse would need to have been relegated to just giving out the Synapse unit's Ld to units in range, that is significantly less fluffy than it is now. I think They've done a good job capturing the fluff in a balanced manner.
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Post by bolk on May 15, 2022 16:32:34 GMT
I'm talking about an exception for Tyranids as an unique trait for the faction. Only way to turn off Synapse and SitW would be to kill the Synapse creatures. But fun and fluffy factors in a game, gods forbid... Problem is flat out ignoring is just too powerful gameplay-wise with the buffs we can layer onto Synapse (or character protection). Synapse would need to have been relegated to just giving out the Synapse unit's Ld to units in range, that is significantly less fluffy than it is now. I think They've done a good job capturing the fluff in a balanced manner. Is it really that hard to kill our Synapse creatures though? T8 with a 4++ isn't that hard to bring down anymore, and with Knights coming up it will just be more of the heavy weapons coming in the meta. But other than this small setback I love the book, it really feels like playing Tyranids.
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Post by Hive Bahamut on May 15, 2022 17:20:00 GMT
What still feels weird is paying 7-8 for horde units, when GSC, Militarum, Admech, Tau, Chaos, or basically every other army rolls out 5-6 max.
Maybe now the image of hordes of talons can finally rest in peace and we can rest the laurels that Nids are not what Starship Troopers is.
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Post by bolk on May 15, 2022 18:43:10 GMT
What still feels weird is paying 7-8 for horde units, when GSC, Militarum, Admech, Tau, Chaos, or basically every other army rolls out 5-6 max. Maybe now the image of hordes of talons can finally rest in peace and we can rest the laurels that Nids are not what Starship Troopers is. Yeah, people keep saying Warriors are undercosted (Sure, maybe Boneswords and Deathspitters should cost something extra), but the main problem is that the other Troop choices cost too much to even consider.
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Post by purestrain on May 15, 2022 19:02:15 GMT
Warriors are only undercosted in leviathan, like anything else with synapse.
All other armies they're just fine and die pretty quick.
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Post by bolk on May 15, 2022 19:50:31 GMT
Warriors are only undercosted in leviathan, like anything else with synapse. All other armies they're just fine and die pretty quick. Oh, you mean like Deathwing Inner Circle?🤣
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Post by bigpig on May 15, 2022 20:55:28 GMT
What still feels weird is paying 7-8 for horde units, when GSC, Militarum, Admech, Tau, Chaos, or basically every other army rolls out 5-6 max. Maybe now the image of hordes of talons can finally rest in peace and we can rest the laurels that Nids are not what Starship Troopers is. Or maybe they will realize they overpriced then and give us a break with the next slate. This especially now that fearless can be turned off and things like dread tests that bypass fearless exist. 7-8ppm for t3 5+ ld5. I had underwhelming performance with them before recent developments. Only worse now. 1ppm would likely be fair adjustment
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Post by bigpig on May 15, 2022 21:02:52 GMT
Warriors are only undercosted in leviathan, like anything else with synapse. All other armies they're just fine and die pretty quick. 100% correct. This highlights the problem with games workshop sticking with its current points adjustment structure. You can balance units pretty easily for a generic fleet/sept/chapter etc. The different sub factions are so unique that you almost need to have some individual points adjustments in specific sub factions. Warriors are much better with a transhuman ability than they are getting hydras trait. As soon as you balance them for their strongest fleet they become overpriced for others. In theory it should balance out because other units may be better or weaker within that fleet. In practice we simply min/max the best stuff
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Post by piersonsmuppet on May 15, 2022 22:55:19 GMT
Cost comparison should not take sub-faction traits into account. If Warriors were only undercosted in Leviathan, they would only primarily show up in Levi lists. Since they show up as the primary troop choice in just about every fleet, they are by definition overcosted. They should only be common in strong fleets and uncommon in weak fleets if costed appropriately. Now its really only the BS/DS that is the root of the pts disparity. I don’t think anyone can say that DBS and scything talons are equivalent…
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