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Post by Hive Bahamut on May 17, 2022 18:26:41 GMT
I was at the LGS yesterday and I overhead a Harlequin player (please do not swear) about Nids.
Is this the world we live in? Are Nids actually the bogeyman for once? I still fail to believe it is raw power and a little bit of people used to clubbing seals..
Most armies can't just auto dunk Nids anymore, including OP hotness. This might not be healthy for the state of the game lengthwise, but Nids needed it.
My first game with the new book the other day and my regular opponent said at the end "that is the first time I have been scared of Nids, ever.."
Long gone are the auto lose days of AV13, or free transport spam and even the Swooping FMC derpy.
Besides, Knights will have guns that auto kill Monsters/Vehicles and Chaos will outdo our melee. It will be short lived, I say enjoy it while we can.
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Post by nameless on May 17, 2022 18:30:14 GMT
Counters for things is absolutely 100% GOOD game design. Doesn’t have to be easy or common, but the fact that they exist is what’s most important. It’s something to consider when building lists and playing the game even if it has limited functionality. That’s like game design 101. There is good game design and then there is lazy. This seems the later to me. Also, I'm not a fan of codexes being invalid they way they are printed less than a month after release. Do they playtest? This afterthought adjustments are a PITA. I switched to iPad codexes only for them to promptly stop selling them. The iPad versions were awesome. The rules automatically updated. In an attempt to force us into their (please do not swear) app they stopped selling the superior product. Their app is still (please do not swear) 2 years in. I will never pay for that horrible app. I honestly don't know how they got it released. Do the rules still link to Google Docs? That was a real low point. I don't understand how it is lazy. These seem to be buzzwords to toss around to get support, but it doesn't really come with any logic behind why it's lazy. Everything should have a counter to it, just like, as mentioned, our fearless is "lazy" because it invalidates a number of codexes who relay on -Ld stuff? Synapse legit should be an aura. It's an aura by the definition of the word aura and also makes complete sense in terms of game mechanics. But it's lazy? I have absolutely no idea where lazy comes from there. I'm confused by your second point. You went from codex to iPad codex for the next version, then back to the print version? Why is that a PITA? I always liked the paper ones, so I never got the iPad ones (since I didn't want to buy both). The app is actually good with the limited bit that I used it and the rules come free with the codex--I didn't pay for anything extra. I'm assuming you bought the new codex, why not try the app for free? Seems silly to complain about those things when none of what you are complaining about is true and filled with misinformation. It's posts like this that stopped me from trying it out before, but little did I know, that everyone with these kinds of complaints didn't even try it for themselves before complaining.
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Post by nameless on May 17, 2022 18:33:22 GMT
I was at the LGS yesterday and I overhead a Harlequin player (please do not swear) about Nids. Is this the world we live in? Are Nids actually the bogeyman for once? I still fail to believe it is raw power and a little bit of people used to clubbing seals.. Most armies can't just auto dunk Nids anymore, including OP hotness. This might not be healthy for the state of the game lengthwise, but Nids needed it. My first game with the new book the other day and my regular opponent said at the end "that is the first time I have been scared of Nids, ever.." Long gone are the auto lose days of AV13, or free transport spam and even the Swooping FMC derpy. Besides, Knights will have guns that auto kill Monsters/Vehicles and Chaos will outdo our melee. It will be short lived, I say enjoy it while we can. Considering all data of results suggest that they are dominating the meta, I cannot fathom why you don't think they are powerful. It has absolutely nothing to do with anything you're writing about. No army/faction/dude/etc. ever "needs it" to be unbalanced in a game you play against someone else. That is legit bad game design.
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Post by piersonsmuppet on May 17, 2022 18:41:39 GMT
There is good game design and then there is lazy. This seems the later to me. Also, I'm not a fan of codexes being invalid they way they are printed less than a month after release. Good game design also includes consistency, like making rules that affect all units around a model count as Auras. Lazy is just making rules in a bubble. The codex has not been invalidated, just some factions have an alternative counter to a now weaker core mechanic of our army. There are only a few of those factions that have a reliable or low opportunity cost method for turning off Synapse. In most cases, opponents are more likely to wipe the squad to guarantee it dying instead of relying on morale (at least I would).
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Post by gigasnail on May 17, 2022 20:39:53 GMT
He's talking about the constant day 1 rules changes (i.e. actual rules changes, not errata).
No one is saying this made the codex unplayable.
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Post by mattblowers on May 17, 2022 21:49:05 GMT
I don't understand how it is lazy. These seem to be buzzwords to toss around to get support, but it doesn't really come with any logic behind why it's lazy. Everything should have a counter to it, just like, as mentioned, our fearless is "lazy" because it invalidates a number of codexes who relay on -Ld stuff? Synapse legit should be an aura. It's an aura by the definition of the word aura and also makes complete sense in terms of game mechanics. But it's lazy? I have absolutely no idea where lazy comes from there. OK sparky. You just seem to like to be argumentative. Lazy. As in, IF they meant it to be an aura, then do so from the beginning. It's never been an aura. It was an ability unique to 'nids. Far less punishing than in previous iterations, but still an absolute requirement to make our low leadership models stick around. Doubly more important now that they have gone up dramatically in points. Should green tide be an aura? Should IG orders be an aura? They are unique abilities to make cheap units viable. To simply say "Oh, yeah it's an aura" is lazy. I am positive that they didn't think through the ramifications. Like I said it's the equivalent of making the Ork and IG abilities auras. Without it the gaunt bodies are just simply not a viable option in the competitive environment without serious work arounds that shouldn't have to be done. I used the app when it first came out and it was hot garbage. Maybe you like hot garbage. They released a half finished product. I actually get out and play with others and not one person who has tried it recently had much positive to say. The list builder as of January still didn't function enough to make legal lists for tournaments so all tournaments require list submission in the form that Battlescribe exports. If the app put out a superior product people would take notice. They haven't. You prefer print codexes? Good for you. I preferred having them all on my iPad so I only had one thing to carry to a tournament. The iPad codexes were incredible. So easy to use and if you had any question about a rule you simply clicked on it and it popped a window with the wording from an FAQ or the BRB. It was so intuitive to use. Nothing GW has put out since has been close to as good. Reasons: 1. It runs my iPad into an iPhone. You can enlarge the window, but it's still formatted for a phone. I work with UX a lot with my job. This is simply rookie level application. 2. Nothing hyperlinks. Each one is seperate. 3. Even the free website Wahapedia is better in every way. Open a datasheet and all the relevant strategems and info is right there. 4. The FAQ is released and the info didn't change. Encircle still says 'End of Turn" (it's fixed on Wahapedia) 5. FAQs are not even on the app, let alone applied. So... It's still hot garbage. Those are 5 reasons right of the top of my head. I love GW. They make the best models. However I'm not such a fanboy that I can't see their faults and I won't call a steaming hot pile of garbage a gourmet meal. FFS.
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Post by nameless on May 17, 2022 22:08:05 GMT
You know, asking a question is not being argumentative. This is classic attacking the poster which really is uncalled for and completely ruins any chance at people taking your points seriously (or at least it should in any setting, expect maybe something like 4chan and the like)
These are really strange things to be called an aura. No, neither of those should be an aura. Green tide is more of a rule based around models standing there (which can be interacted with) and orders are more equivalent to our synaptic links (which are explicitly not auras); neither of those would make sense to be auras. Auras, as rules, are relativity new things so it makes sense that some things need to be updated (or just weren't considered). I'm sure you have a job where mistakes happen too.
I don't have some massive love for GW, but not everything has to be "because I like steaming hot garbage" (a very mature comment, I might add). The original starting point of the app was no good, which again, is why I didn't love it. It's far better now. It really doesn't matter what it was like as it's not like that anymore. Is it perfect? Nope.
This is needless passive-aggressive. I get out to play with people. That's why I tried the app--because the person across from me was using it. So, when I got my new codex, I put in the code and works great.
Again, is this necessary? Is this what you want this forum to be? People who need to go this aggressive to even have discussions that might not align with the other person. I'd love it if we can cut out the personal attack. That would really be lovely. I don't know what happened to make everyone so angry; it was never like this before.
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Post by Hive Bahamut on May 17, 2022 22:18:58 GMT
I was at the LGS yesterday and I overhead a Harlequin player (please do not swear) about Nids. Is this the world we live in? Are Nids actually the bogeyman for once? I still fail to believe it is raw power and a little bit of people used to clubbing seals.. Most armies can't just auto dunk Nids anymore, including OP hotness. This might not be healthy for the state of the game lengthwise, but Nids needed it. My first game with the new book the other day and my regular opponent said at the end "that is the first time I have been scared of Nids, ever.." Long gone are the auto lose days of AV13, or free transport spam and even the Swooping FMC derpy. Besides, Knights will have guns that auto kill Monsters/Vehicles and Chaos will outdo our melee. It will be short lived, I say enjoy it while we can. Considering all data of results suggest that they are dominating the meta, I cannot fathom why you don't think they are powerful. It has absolutely nothing to do with anything you're writing about. No army/faction/dude/etc. ever "needs it" to be unbalanced in a game you play against someone else. That is legit bad game design. Yet you missed the entirety that the game has been poorly balanced since I picked it up in 4th. The point is who cares? If you play plastic dolls to win, jump on the Nid wagon. The arguement is that it will just pivot, the same as it always has. Play broken Nids, don't (please do not swear) about it because they don't come around that often.
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Post by mattblowers on May 17, 2022 22:26:49 GMT
I don't have some massive love for GW, but not everything has to be "because I like steaming hot garbage" (a very mature comment, I might add). The original starting point of the app was no good, which again, is why I didn't love it. It's far better now. It really doesn't matter what it was like as it's not like that anymore. Is it perfect? Nope. Flamed my post (this one and before) but refuse to respond to the actual content. I'm not sure you actually read it. I gave 5 reasons why the app still sucks, today, 5/17/2022. "It's better now." Really? I mean, I guess, marginally, at least pages don't take you to Google Drive. It's still garbage for those 5 reasons I listed alone. It's an embarrassment when your app (much of which is behind a paywall) is worse in nearly every respect from a fan built webpage. A webpage that is more hyperlinked and interactive than an app. And it's far, far worse than the iPad version was. And I am not passive agressive. You could have said I reacted too strongly; that's probably fair. But anyone on here will tell you I let you exactly what I think, nothing passive or remotely back handed about any of it. If you want more gentile responses maybe don't start a response with things like: These seem to be buzzwords to toss around to get support, but it doesn't really come with any logic behind why it's lazy everyone with these kinds of complaints didn't even try it for themselves before complaining
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Post by piersonsmuppet on May 17, 2022 22:30:37 GMT
Lazy. As in, IF they meant it to be an aura, then do so from the beginning. It's never been an aura. It was an ability unique to 'nids. Synapse was an Aura in 8E, all abilities that affected an area around a unit were considered auras unless otherwise stated. 9E got rid of the “unless otherwise stated” and started tagging Auras in the ability name. So 8E Synapse not being FAQ’d as an Aura was an act of laziness, not the updating of the ability to correctly reflect 9E rules. Not putting the fix in the printed Codex was just sloppy, something GW has also shown a propensity for.
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Post by mattblowers on May 17, 2022 22:59:57 GMT
Not putting the fix in the printed Codex was just sloppy, something GW has also shown a propensity for. Exactly. Makes you wonder if they even playtest.
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Post by yoritomo on May 17, 2022 23:09:55 GMT
Mattblowers, nameless, you both need to drop this right now. If you guys keep this up you’ll both end up in time out.
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Post by mattblowers on May 18, 2022 0:21:34 GMT
Mattblowers, nameless, you both need to drop this right now. If you guys keep this up you’ll both end up in time out. That's embarassing. (please do not swear) slapped by the moderator. Fair enough. My apologies to nameless. To be fair I didn't think it was THAT far out of line. I didn't call names or anything. Still. Probably let a bad day at work get the best of me. I'll put myself in timeout for the evening and go have a scotch.
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Post by yoritomo on May 18, 2022 0:51:11 GMT
Great. Scotch solves everything.
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Post by Bohxim on May 18, 2022 7:05:28 GMT
I'm more of a gin or schnapps person myself. Here have one on me. What are we, if not a collective hive sharing consumables.
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