Post by bigpig on May 10, 2022 6:57:05 GMT
Got another game in today vs the new Chaos Knight dex. The intent was to see if there was sufficient resilience to eek out a "play the mission" W. My list goes in with a huge disadvantage as the main benefit that makes it work, 4+ to wound everything, doesn't work against vehicles, which is the only thing the CK army has. I did this as an exercise to see if there were any legs to the concept as well as to get a feel for the CK rules. My, now slightly modified, as follows;
WARLORD: Neurothrope
TRAITS: Synaptic Tendrils
PSYCHIC POWERS: Paroxysm, Onslaught
Tervigon Adrenal glands
TRAITS: Direct Guidance
PSYCHIC POWERS: Catalyst
RELICS: The Maw-claws of Thyrax
STRATAGEMS: Hive Predator
Tyranid Prime Venom cannon
Garrgoyles
11x Gargoyle
Hormagaunts
29x Hormagaunt
Hormagaunts
15x Hormagaunt
Termagants
30x Termagant
Termagants
30x Termagant
Termagants
25x Termagant
Maleceptor
PSYCHIC POWERS: Neuroparasite, Psychic Scream
Pyrovores
Venomthropes
3x Venomthrope
Zoanthropes
3x Zoanthrope
PSYCHIC POWERS: Neuroparasite
Parasite of Mortex
TRAITS: Alien Cunning
RELICS: Gestation Sac
STRATAGEMS: Hive Predator, Rarefied Enhancements
STRATAGEMS
Hive Predator (1CP)
Hive Predator (1CP)
Rarefied Enhancements (1CP)
Total Command Points: 6/15
Reinforcement Points: 0
Total Points: 2000/2000
Opponent
House Herpatrax.
Tyrant, mirrors of fate, WLT: bow to none.
Abominant, Cursed Runes of fate, soul-raptor swarm, WLT: infernal quest, Aura of terror
Desecrator, Pyrothrone, Veil of Medrengard
X2 Wardog Stalkers
X1 Wardog Executioner
Long story short... this was bad. Opponent said he would not take the obvious anti horde stuff so we could get a feel, but most of his knights being melee capable now that riverdancing on your opponent with stompy feet has gone away, was still very telling when I could do little damage in return.
Mission was the scouring. He won roll off. My hope was to get a few turns of stranglehold, score RND, and psychic interrogation. Map was average US Open for terrain... not good, but not necessarily a shooting gallery although there were no "solid L's" or ruins with solid ground floors. I deployed across the board with the Horms heavy on one side, hiding my Mal, venoms, and zoans out of LoS. He deployed aggressively and he got first turn. I chose warp shielding
Turn 1
He moved aggressively to mid board leading with the mortalFNP knight towards my Mal. Psyker knight cast the AOE FNP. Every gun went into one 30 unit Term squad. I had some subpar invul rolls, but still managed to survive with one termagaunt in the unit
Command phase I decided to try and raise the damaged unit back up. I rolled a 4 on 2D6 for Tervigon respawn but got 5 from endless swarm. This would become the trend as I never spawned more from the Terv than from endless swarm. Because of the need to deploy my Mal so far back I couldn't get it into range of anything. Both Horm units went towards a wardog and his psyker knight. I pushed up on the other flank to bodyguard the Terv while the newly respawned unit got RND, one Term unit scanned an objective, and the gargoyles encircled the prey. Psychic phase was uneventful with some buffs but I landed poisonous influence on the large Horm unit. I charged the large horm unit into psyker knight and wardog (right next to each other so I had to), but failed with the second unit despite shard lure and a reroll. This kept me from taking the third objective I needed and getting stranglehold as well as only taking the wardog down to 3 wounds left. This was a turning point. I'm not saying I could have pulled this battle out overall, but at this point I immediately lost any momentum as I should have killed a wardog, minimize return attacks, and scored stranglehold. He was also able to heroicaly intervene into the smaller and smack it around now
Turn 2
Damaged Wardog fell back and everything else surged forwardand he did Dread Test shenanigans which are very effective against Ld 5 units. Basically he eliminated the big horm unit, the damaged and revived Terms, put some wounds on the second large Term unit, eliminated the Venoms to get to the Mal but only could put 6 wounds on it. He lead with his 4+ FNP vs mortals knight. This made it hard for me to go after the mortal wound target I wanted. I rolled to add back to the damaged Term unit and got a 5, then added 5 more to the remaining horms with endless swarm. Gargs returned in his backfield for an RND. Pyro scanned an objective in my zone. I was able to eliminate the second wardog and put some wounds on the FNP knight in the psychic phase. Shooting was uneventful. The obsec on his knights and his wardogs as well as the need to do actions, kept me from getting objective advantage to score stranglehold
Turn 3
Psyker knight moved into my side of the board and grabbed objective. He smacked around a lot of gaunts on my remaining two units and shot the last of the remaining horm unit away as well as destroying the zoans, and my Prime with shooting. I rolled to respawn the damaged gaunts and got another 5, followed up by 4 more from endless swarm..... Parasite came on spawning rippers and stealing an objective off a loan wardog. Shooting and psychic were uneventful due to the 4+ FNP knight, though I did land some wounds. Charged with the Tervigon and the Mal, bringing his knight down to 1 wounds.... Took 12 damage on the Terv in response. His knight living prevented an overrun onto an objective for Stranglehold.
Turn 4
A lot of mopping up. He finished off my last Term unit and destroyed the Mal in melee shooting, then dread shenanigans. I killed his knight in melee on his turn. Very little left at this point. Spawned a unit of 10 and then charged his psyker knight with the Tervigon as it was pretty much game over at this point. Gargs got RND in a third quarter but I couldn't commitd to scan any more objectives at this point. Did 13 wounds to his psyker then died in return. At this point it was game over. I had a pyrovore, parasite, 4 rippers, and gargoyles left... meh
Long story short, 2 little and one big knight dead and not enough weight of numbers to carry the day on objective game. Not even close. I get that this is a skew list vs skew list match up but the overcost of our gribblies is so apparent here in a matchup with disadvantage.
I did have some bad luck on respawns, the first turn charge, and his taking what felt like a dedicated "oh you have lots of mortals" defense and having it take point (though he didn't take flamers or blast so balance) but I don't think it was ever close. We didn't bother to calc the final points, but suffice to say I couldnt keep up with the primary. Just not enough bodies to allow a disadvantage game to feel like you had a chance. In past editions I've run swarm lists and it truly felt like the opponent didn't have enough bullets. With 7 and 8ppm, I don't know if thats possible.
Will do some more options, but feeling like we are in the Skew list "don't get unlucky matchups" realm. Adding more antitank doesn't help against knights and just takes away from the weight of numbers I"m hoping for.
WARLORD: Neurothrope
TRAITS: Synaptic Tendrils
PSYCHIC POWERS: Paroxysm, Onslaught
Tervigon Adrenal glands
TRAITS: Direct Guidance
PSYCHIC POWERS: Catalyst
RELICS: The Maw-claws of Thyrax
STRATAGEMS: Hive Predator
Tyranid Prime Venom cannon
Garrgoyles
11x Gargoyle
Hormagaunts
29x Hormagaunt
Hormagaunts
15x Hormagaunt
Termagants
30x Termagant
Termagants
30x Termagant
Termagants
25x Termagant
Maleceptor
PSYCHIC POWERS: Neuroparasite, Psychic Scream
Pyrovores
Venomthropes
3x Venomthrope
Zoanthropes
3x Zoanthrope
PSYCHIC POWERS: Neuroparasite
Parasite of Mortex
TRAITS: Alien Cunning
RELICS: Gestation Sac
STRATAGEMS: Hive Predator, Rarefied Enhancements
STRATAGEMS
Hive Predator (1CP)
Hive Predator (1CP)
Rarefied Enhancements (1CP)
Total Command Points: 6/15
Reinforcement Points: 0
Total Points: 2000/2000
Opponent
House Herpatrax.
Tyrant, mirrors of fate, WLT: bow to none.
Abominant, Cursed Runes of fate, soul-raptor swarm, WLT: infernal quest, Aura of terror
Desecrator, Pyrothrone, Veil of Medrengard
X2 Wardog Stalkers
X1 Wardog Executioner
Long story short... this was bad. Opponent said he would not take the obvious anti horde stuff so we could get a feel, but most of his knights being melee capable now that riverdancing on your opponent with stompy feet has gone away, was still very telling when I could do little damage in return.
Mission was the scouring. He won roll off. My hope was to get a few turns of stranglehold, score RND, and psychic interrogation. Map was average US Open for terrain... not good, but not necessarily a shooting gallery although there were no "solid L's" or ruins with solid ground floors. I deployed across the board with the Horms heavy on one side, hiding my Mal, venoms, and zoans out of LoS. He deployed aggressively and he got first turn. I chose warp shielding
Turn 1
He moved aggressively to mid board leading with the mortalFNP knight towards my Mal. Psyker knight cast the AOE FNP. Every gun went into one 30 unit Term squad. I had some subpar invul rolls, but still managed to survive with one termagaunt in the unit
Command phase I decided to try and raise the damaged unit back up. I rolled a 4 on 2D6 for Tervigon respawn but got 5 from endless swarm. This would become the trend as I never spawned more from the Terv than from endless swarm. Because of the need to deploy my Mal so far back I couldn't get it into range of anything. Both Horm units went towards a wardog and his psyker knight. I pushed up on the other flank to bodyguard the Terv while the newly respawned unit got RND, one Term unit scanned an objective, and the gargoyles encircled the prey. Psychic phase was uneventful with some buffs but I landed poisonous influence on the large Horm unit. I charged the large horm unit into psyker knight and wardog (right next to each other so I had to), but failed with the second unit despite shard lure and a reroll. This kept me from taking the third objective I needed and getting stranglehold as well as only taking the wardog down to 3 wounds left. This was a turning point. I'm not saying I could have pulled this battle out overall, but at this point I immediately lost any momentum as I should have killed a wardog, minimize return attacks, and scored stranglehold. He was also able to heroicaly intervene into the smaller and smack it around now
Turn 2
Damaged Wardog fell back and everything else surged forwardand he did Dread Test shenanigans which are very effective against Ld 5 units. Basically he eliminated the big horm unit, the damaged and revived Terms, put some wounds on the second large Term unit, eliminated the Venoms to get to the Mal but only could put 6 wounds on it. He lead with his 4+ FNP vs mortals knight. This made it hard for me to go after the mortal wound target I wanted. I rolled to add back to the damaged Term unit and got a 5, then added 5 more to the remaining horms with endless swarm. Gargs returned in his backfield for an RND. Pyro scanned an objective in my zone. I was able to eliminate the second wardog and put some wounds on the FNP knight in the psychic phase. Shooting was uneventful. The obsec on his knights and his wardogs as well as the need to do actions, kept me from getting objective advantage to score stranglehold
Turn 3
Psyker knight moved into my side of the board and grabbed objective. He smacked around a lot of gaunts on my remaining two units and shot the last of the remaining horm unit away as well as destroying the zoans, and my Prime with shooting. I rolled to respawn the damaged gaunts and got another 5, followed up by 4 more from endless swarm..... Parasite came on spawning rippers and stealing an objective off a loan wardog. Shooting and psychic were uneventful due to the 4+ FNP knight, though I did land some wounds. Charged with the Tervigon and the Mal, bringing his knight down to 1 wounds.... Took 12 damage on the Terv in response. His knight living prevented an overrun onto an objective for Stranglehold.
Turn 4
A lot of mopping up. He finished off my last Term unit and destroyed the Mal in melee shooting, then dread shenanigans. I killed his knight in melee on his turn. Very little left at this point. Spawned a unit of 10 and then charged his psyker knight with the Tervigon as it was pretty much game over at this point. Gargs got RND in a third quarter but I couldn't commitd to scan any more objectives at this point. Did 13 wounds to his psyker then died in return. At this point it was game over. I had a pyrovore, parasite, 4 rippers, and gargoyles left... meh
Long story short, 2 little and one big knight dead and not enough weight of numbers to carry the day on objective game. Not even close. I get that this is a skew list vs skew list match up but the overcost of our gribblies is so apparent here in a matchup with disadvantage.
I did have some bad luck on respawns, the first turn charge, and his taking what felt like a dedicated "oh you have lots of mortals" defense and having it take point (though he didn't take flamers or blast so balance) but I don't think it was ever close. We didn't bother to calc the final points, but suffice to say I couldnt keep up with the primary. Just not enough bodies to allow a disadvantage game to feel like you had a chance. In past editions I've run swarm lists and it truly felt like the opponent didn't have enough bullets. With 7 and 8ppm, I don't know if thats possible.
Will do some more options, but feeling like we are in the Skew list "don't get unlucky matchups" realm. Adding more antitank doesn't help against knights and just takes away from the weight of numbers I"m hoping for.