Tyrant Guard getting better

[purestrain]

Tyrant Guard: 6" move, s5 t6, 4 wounds, 3 attacks, and a 2+ save. They gain the 9th edition bodyguard rule, but only for hive tyrants and swarmlord. They also get +1 attack while near a hive tyrant.

Their crushing claws become s+3 ap-3 d2 but no -1 to hit, while their lash whip and bonesword is s+2 ap-2 d2 with rr1s to hit.

Points dependent, or if your HT is gun kitted and/or is an essential portion of your shooting/melee this is a great change, what do you all think? 

[infornography]

I think they will entirely come down to points as usual. Tyrant Guard have been drastically overcosted though all of 8th and 9th edition. They could have amazing melee capabilities but if they continue to be so absurdly overcosted they will remain not worth it because their primary job is to take hits for the tyrants and odds are not great they will survive to see melee. 3 or 4 attacks at S7 or 8 doing 2 damage isn't enough to make it worth taking them as a dedicated beatstick squad unless they are REALLY cheap. Getting 6" move helps though. I really want them to be worth it again, but points will make or break this unit and their points have been seriously crazy for the better part of 2 editions now.

[killercroc]

Yeah, it really depends on their points and with that stat line I'm thinking they're not going to be cheap. It's just a weird unit in my eyes. It's a really good CC unit that's able to rip apart anything that threatens the Tyrant... but it's also suppose to jump in front of shots and die for the Tyrant, making their whole CC-ness usually never coming into play. Now T6 4W and a 2+ is pretty durable I'll give them that, being able to tank small arms fire for days and even an anti-tank shot or two before dying. Though, looking at the cost of a lot of other units in the game that can do the bodyguard thing while still be able to fire and fight makes Guard a bit tricky of a comparison. Marine Bladeguard have the same Movement, number of wounds, 2+/4++ and do as much damage in combat with 3A S5 AP -3 2 Dmg and they're only 35 points... I don't think 2 points of toughness is a massively huge bump compared to having a 4++ so if Tyrant guard were 35 points as well I'd consider that pretty comparable. If Guard were 50-ish points I don't think they'd be worth taking at all. Also, I know Bladeguard aren't bodyguards but they're pretty close stat and weapon wise and they can still body block for any Marine character with ease.

[purestrain]

Don't forget, to you can have a zoe squad nearby t1 so they have t6/2+/5++ and the new bodyguard rule means they have to kill them in order to get to your HT/SL, t6 means little to Levi mini trans but if the only guns they have are x2s or really heavy like railguns itll help a lot.

Although I do agree, its always down the points cost.

[piersonsmuppet]

If the new codex allows running SL and another Tyrant, they have potential to be great. Building a list which looks to do TTL that involves 2 monsters that can’t be shot is going to be a good play. They also look like they’d do some good work with SL rumored rr’s & Obj Sec. They prob won’t be spam worthy, but they already look like a unit that will have a place in any list with SL.

[killercroc]

So I haven't kept up well on all the new rules, is the Zoan aura for invulns a command ability or is it a strat/power and is it Hive Fleet specific? If not then getting a 5++ for them would be a whole lot nicer for their survivability.

[purestrain]

Mar 1, 2022 16:32:34 GMT killercroc said:

So I haven't kept up well on all the new rules, is the Zoan aura for invulns a command ability or is it a strat/power and is it Hive Fleet specific? If not then getting a 5++ for them would be a whole lot nicer for their survivability.

From what is know, and what I can recall its their synaptic link ability, which is once per game but can be triggered on any persons turn.

So if you don't get first turn and they have really heavy firepower, you can activate their link and ALL units within 6" of the unit with the link that was activated get its effect, which would be 5++ to non monsters and 4++ to monsters for the turn.

[kazetanade]

Bodyguard 9th Ed rules are good. Really good. If you keep them out of view, and put SL on a point, he's now safe from Tau. Same with a Flyrant. That a big deal.

Now give them extra damage and hits consistejtly? Woo. The only thing is -1D, but that an issue even before new codex so nothing new. I like.

Don't see any problems with they new stats. I love it.

[killercroc]

Hmm, once a game all units within 6" get a 5++/4++ That is actually pretty good, especially against all the heavy fire that happens T1, will really give me a reason to run a squad of 6 Zoans besides just for smite battery and tanking (Yes I run Zoans as a solid wall for tanking fire it's dumb but works) Really cannot wait for the Dex to drop so we can finally see all our new toys.

As for bodyguards being good in 9th, that's thw whole "Hide the bodyguard so the bodyguard/character are untargetable" thing? Has that not been FAQ'd out yet? Seems pretty cheesy tbh, I'd rather have solid units than have to rule lawyer and cheese it up.

But yes, their new stat line is very impressive, real reason to take claws now. Only real issue... getting a box of them.

[purestrain]

Also remember that if they want that ++ to go away they need to kill the squad that emits the aura, and if your leviathan that means zoes are t4 3(?)W with a 4++ and 1-3 transhuman

[yoritomo]

Mar 1, 2022 14:45:17 GMT infornography said:

I think they will entirely come down to points as usual. Tyrant Guard have been drastically overcosted though all of 8th and 9th edition. They could have amazing melee capabilities but if they continue to be so absurdly overcosted they will remain not worth it because their primary job is to take hits for the tyrants and odds are not great they will survive to see melee. 3 or 4 attacks at S7 or 8 doing 2 damage isn't enough to make it worth taking them as a dedicated beatstick squad unless they are REALLY cheap. Getting 6" move helps though. I really want them to be worth it again, but points will make or break this unit and their points have been seriously crazy for the better part of 2 editions now.

I disagree. While points are obviously a factor, I don’t see this as the issue that keeps tyrant guard off the table.

Whether or not the tyrant guard see play has to do with two things: 1) is a walking tyrant playable, and 2) is there a commander cap on hive tyrants.

Tyrant guard have always been overcoat because you’re paying for their bodyguard rules. If you aren’t taking a walking tyrant for them to protect they will never be worth the cost. I know that the Swarmlord is a walking tyrant, but his movement rules let him outpace any tyrant guard coverage. If walking tyrants become a thing in the new codex then we will have to evaluate how much that bodyguard function is worth.

I’ve also maintained the position that I’d rather have a second hive tyrant before spending points on what functionality become ablative wound with tyrant guard. In the past this means that tyrant guard were only considered if you ran out of HQ slots for your tyrants. If hive tyrants get the commander treatment then tyrant guard become the only thing that has the ability to increase the survivability of a tyrant. How much is that worth? It could be a lot if a tyrant is a must have on the battlefield.

[jesses]

I hope they are wrong about the 6" move. Why on earth does GW think a bodyguard unit 33% slower than the unit it's guarding is useful...

[infornography]

Mar 1, 2022 20:09:33 GMT jesses said:

I hope they are wrong about the 6" move. Why on earth does GW think a bodyguard unit 33% slower than the unit it's guarding is useful...

It could be based on the idea that the unit they are guarding is either not moving that much, or at least not advancing. Then the bodyguards can advance to keep pace since they have no guns to worry about being able to shoot without penalty.

The main utility of them will likely be to hide them behind LOS blocking terrain so your Tyrant can unload ranged weaponry and psyker abilities into the battlefield.
That means that they will likely be taken as cheaply as possible because their melee potential is of little value.

If they are escorting a melee focused Tyrant and they have no ability to charge after advancing even through a strat, then yeah, that speed will hamper their potential.

[xtztxtxz]

Mar 1, 2022 17:51:10 GMT killercroc said:

As for bodyguards being good in 9th, that's thw whole "Hide the bodyguard so the bodyguard/character are untargetable" thing? Has that not been FAQ'd out yet? Seems pretty cheesy tbh, I'd rather have solid units than have to rule lawyer and cheese it up.

If there's a codex that's going to get the bodyguard rule nerfed, it's ours. Being able to make multiple powerful HQ monsters completely untargetable by hiding a super-durable unit out of LOS seems crazy. Just looking at the new weapon stats it may even be worthwhile having two detachments for VC walkrants to snipe away with impunity.

Mar 1, 2022 20:09:33 GMT jesses said:

I hope they are wrong about the 6" move. Why on earth does GW think a bodyguard unit 33% slower than the unit it's guarding is useful...

I suspect it's because there are other movement buffs available in the codex and they can either compensate for the difference or even push this pretty tanky unit into being faster than GW intended. We already 'know' about:

AG giving +1" movement
Tervigon links giving +2" movement

There could be a whole host of other options available on top of that, such as our current advance & charge / auto-advance 6.

[swarm492]

I think they will have a bit more of a come back simply because there is a reason to run walking tyrants other than the swarmlord