Leaked tyranid statlines

[purestrain]

Feb 28, 2022 15:05:16 GMT SNA said:

Feb 28, 2022 6:28:22 GMT purestrain said:

The game has existed for 9 editions, so horms have been chaff units a lot longer than they were blender machines, get over it, you're the only one that cares.

In the last line of the post directly above this I literally pointed out the exact number of years Tyranids had good codices vs bad ones - 15 to 12. So no, they have not been chaff "a lot longer", not even the majority of the time. If you're going to be an (please do not swear) by saying no one cares as if you speak for everybody, try to at least not be objectively wrong while doing it.

You speak for 2 people, sit down and take a breath, its not going to be the old ways anymore.

[SNA]

Feb 28, 2022 15:25:06 GMT swarminghurts said:

Uhh, you guys..

Tyranids are more competitive now than those 2 months 7 flyrants were a thing. Having had an artillery based theme, then swarm, stealer sling, hive guards again, now crusher stampede. All of these lists have been super fun and brutal to play. We got a 2nd nid army, GSC, who fill in the gaps we might have while running classic nids, we got a new model in sight and stuff like dules, harpies, warriors, haruspex, who were as bad as (please do not swear) for multiple years are now (please do not swear) crazy good. Wtf are we whining about again? Been playing since 3rd and believe me, stealers were blenders, gants have never been. Have you guys seen the size of hormogaunts in that space marine 2 trailer? They're like small dogs with tails and rabbit legs. They should not be used to kill stuff. For the past 8 years, all hormogaunts have ever done is tarpitting tanks or running up to objectives with their above average movement speed. Thats it. Why sweat about it. We'll see what it brings.

Okay I'll break this down again.
In 2nd and 3rd edition, hormagaunts were WS 4. For you new kids that started in 8th or 9th, that doesn't mean "4+", it means "better than 3". Guardsmen were WS 3. Space Marines were WS 4. Hormagaunts hit like Space Marines, ie, what today would be "3+". They also had more attacks than Space Marines while doing it.

In 4th edition (or in the 3rd edition custom hivefleet rules), everything got stripped down, but had biomorphs that could buy their stats back up. So horms were still WS 4 for the same points as before, but you could take cheaper chaff ones if you wanted to.

5th edition codex rolled around, written by a man named cruddace who hates tyranids and has (please do not swear) all over us ever since. It is near-universally considered by veteran gamers who were around long enough to see the transition, as one of the worst codices ever produced by GW for any faction. It was outright malicious. In that book hormagaunts (and basically everything else) were nonsensically stripped down to WS 3 with no more upgrade to fix it.

Arguing that every edition since has followed this pattern so this is just how hormagaunts are now and we should accept that is, to me, obnoxious, because 1. every Tyranid codex since was written by the same guy who still (please do not swear) hates us, and 2. GW is using 9th edition to make sweeping changes to statlines and reimagine units and weapons or bring them back in line with 2nd edition versions. And excitingly, the leaked datasheets indicated that they were indeed going to properly fix nids too and they were no longer in cruds hands. Haruspex got WS 3+, Carnifex leaks say WS 3+, Purestrain Genestealers in GSC got WS 2+. So they fixed horms right? No, still WS 4+. This is the source of my irritation, and I don't understand why some people here are practically crawling over each other to tell me I should be happy. Orks have gotten +1 Strength, Toughness, and Attack since their 3rd/4th edition statlines. Marines got +1 Wound, +2 bloody Attacks with Shock Assault, and Bolter Discipline. Tau have more range on their guns, Eldar have Shuriken/Bladestorm, everyones troops have had improvements from the early days.

Tyranid Hormagaunts, even with the buffed statline in the 9e codex, are more or less just back to where they were previously but with -1 WS. Instead they got a 5+ armour save. Which by the way, was an optional biomorph back then anyways if you wanted it.

Does the new codex still look really strong and greatly improved? Hell yes. I'm not saying the whole book is trash now because of this one disappointment. But all the buffs in the world to other bugs aren't going to change that some people might be disappointed if one of their favorite units that they have hundreds of models of, got left behind in a nonsensical way. It was just such an easy and obvious fix and GW dropped the ball. I am not sure why so many people got upset about me pointing this out and needed to argue to defend this bad decision.

[infornography]

Feb 28, 2022 15:25:06 GMT swarminghurts said:

Have you guys seen the size of hormogaunts in that space marine 2 trailer? They're like small dogs with tails and rabbit legs. They should not be used to kill stuff.

I will point out that one game's direction with them shouldn't be taken as gospel given that a half dozen other games have them the size of ponies.
Just based off the minis, they look to be roughly the mass of a guardsman if not more. I do think they should be more capable in melee than they are now, but I don't think that means they should be blenders either. I am cautiously optimistic based on what the rumors of the new codex have been saying, but we will have to wait and see how it turns out when the dust clears. No real use in getting THIS worked up in the mean time.

[purestrain]

*Has no idea what the codex beholds for said unit, still calls it bad because of "nostalgia"*

Your argument in a nutshell.

You're embarrassing yourself, but that's a personal choice.

Anyhow, back on topic.

I'm really interested in seeing the flexible traits for hive fleets, lurk hunt and feed sound like some pretty interesting things, but not overpowered things will come from it.

[yoritomo]

I’ve had about enough of this.

*locked*