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Post by acehilator on Jan 10, 2022 20:56:39 GMT
Yeah even after close inspection (it's fully leaked), this is probably the best 9E codex so far. Amazing internal balance, and great sync of rules and fluff. Powerwise, it's going to be A tier at least.
Never saw it coming either.
For Rockgrinders, 5 Aberrants with "Our time is nigh" and maybe "Alchemist Supreme" 5+ FNP. Decent output, somewhat hard to shift, don't really require support, fire and forget, transhuman for 1CP, and don't have to obey the stricter coherency rules.
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Post by hivemind03 on Jan 10, 2022 21:00:04 GMT
You are going to take a certain number of units purely for crossfire/exposed shenanigans and Jackals are high on that list. I dont think popping units up behind your opponent to get those bonuses will always work due to terrain and screening so you'll need a variety of ways to either get those angles or force the result via straragems and other abilities, like the Alphus and Nexos.
2 or 3 units of Jackals and a nexos are going to be the core of a Crossfire suite for me in every army initially.
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Post by gorsameth on Jan 10, 2022 21:30:03 GMT
Sanctus is also a good option both for reliable crossfire cause of auto hit but also because he can sit on a home objective >12" away from the opponent completely out in the open and not be shot off.
That is the one thing I think this new codex hasn't 'fixed'. Surviving a turn sitting on an Objective in the open is still a problem.
As for what to put in Rockgrinders? I like 5 acolytes with 2 Rock Cutters. Its cheap at 65 points, Obsec and it packs enough of a punch to be a threat to a small unit.
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Post by niiai on Jan 10, 2022 21:40:57 GMT
Well the fact that we are still paper thin is part of what gives us personakaty. Although we do have some durable units. The Goliatha and abberants are nice. (Use doctor for more du abilaty.) Bikes are also sturdy.
One of the cults can give 5++ with stratagem. Also, pauper prices is it, can give the patriarch look out sir automaticly and give an aura of protection around him. Very good if you want to spam Neophytes and never die.
In rockgrinders I am liking all four flavors. Abberants are great, purestrains has a good launch platform, acolytes are good. I am not so sold on the hybrids, but people said they where great VS drukhari in the old codex. Those four finally feel like they have a distink role.
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Post by acehilator on Jan 10, 2022 22:30:14 GMT
Metamorphs are still niche use imho. Integrated fight after dying is what makes them interesting, to mess up consolidate shenanigans. Otherwise you get Purestrains for +2 points.
For Rockgrinders, not sure about five 1W models that die to a stiff breeze. At that point you are just trading MSU units. Acos/Purestrains/Metas should go into Trucks as units of 10, imho.
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Post by gorsameth on Jan 10, 2022 23:04:34 GMT
Metamorphs are still niche use imho. Integrated fight after dying is what makes them interesting, to mess up consolidate shenanigans. Otherwise you get Purestrains for +2 points. For Rockgrinders, not sure about five 1W models that die to a stiff breeze. At that point you are just trading MSU units. Acos/Purestrains/Metas should go into Trucks as units of 10, imho. The idea is that you can park the Rockgrinder on an objective, have a decent shooting platform and if it gets popped 5 more obsec models come out. Its more likely to surviving holding said objective then a bunch of GEQ would. You could do the same with a truck with 10 models but inside the truck those models don't do anything and, imo, the Heavy Seismic Cannon is a worthwhile upgrade over the Truck for 20 points. With the +1 dmg strat a single Rockgrinder puts out 3 4D shots or 6 3D shots. |
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Post by LordPathos on Jan 11, 2022 0:00:56 GMT
Do we think the baseline for Purestrain Genestealers is gonna be the same for Hive Fleet Genestealers?
Or are they the same and all the extra goodies I've been seeing are from Cult Creeds and strats?
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Post by purestrain on Jan 11, 2022 0:15:47 GMT
Is there any known limit on the plans or amount that can be done?
I want to give both my rockgrinders "From every angle" but I dont have the specifics about it.
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Post by gorsameth on Jan 11, 2022 0:19:35 GMT
Is there any known limit on the plans or amount that can be done? I want to give both my rockgrinders "From every angle" but I dont have the specifics about it. Max 1 per unit and max 1 of each plan so sadly not possible. |
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Post by purestrain on Jan 11, 2022 0:26:11 GMT
Is there any known limit on the plans or amount that can be done? I want to give both my rockgrinders "From every angle" but I dont have the specifics about it. Max 1 per unit and max 1 of each plan so sadly not possible. Oh well, a side flank of that flamer/grinder combo should do some work |
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Post by Hive Bahamut on Jan 11, 2022 1:28:37 GMT
Do we think the baseline for Purestrain Genestealers is gonna be the same for Hive Fleet Genestealers? Or are they the same and all the extra goodies I've been seeing are from Cult Creeds and strats? I do believe they are not going to be the same. 5-10 with massive stat upgrades are because they are elites and few in number. Also changing their claws names to Purestrain makes me think this. Tyranids use mass production cookie cutter units. Best case example is Broodlord vs. Patriarch. On paper they are not even close, and lore they match this difference. We will see, but for the first time since Inception, the Codex named AFTER Genestealers, actually has good Genestealers. |
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Post by mecha82 on Jan 11, 2022 4:22:30 GMT
Do we think the baseline for Purestrain Genestealers is gonna be the same for Hive Fleet Genestealers? Or are they the same and all the extra goodies I've been seeing are from Cult Creeds and strats? I do believe they are not going to be the same. 5-10 with massive stat upgrades are because they are elites and few in number. Also changing their claws names to Purestrain makes me think this. Tyranids use mass production cookie cutter units. Best case example is Broodlord vs. Patriarch. On paper they are not even close, and lore they match this difference. We will see, but for the first time since Inception, the Codex named AFTER Genestealers, actually has good Genestealers. Looks like SOMEONE slept in Tyranid school! If you look at the current profiles of the Broodlord vs Patriarch, (not the new codex, it's not out yet) they are almost EXACTLY the same! And there is good reason for this, in lore a Patriarch becomes a Broodlord when the Hive Fleet descends and takes over the Patriarch's mind. They are literally the same unit, on paper AND in lore. But otherwise, yes. Tyranids do have a habit of mass production. But they also occasionally make something unique and deadly. The Doom of Malantai is still canon, even if we don't have a model or rules for it. |
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Post by mecha82 on Jan 11, 2022 4:25:57 GMT
Someone wrote that kellermorph only can shot one extra attack. When I read the rules it says "each time this units makes an attack and a hit is scored ... it can make 1 aditional attack..." Sounds like it was before right? First you shoot 6 shots, then count the hits and shoot that many extra shots. Am I right? yes he still gets an extra shot for each hit. Ah, I was reading it wrong then. I read it as, "when this unit makes an attack and a hit is scored, roll the rest of your attacks, and then make 1 additional attack" I am very pleased to be wrong, the Kelermorph will continue to be a beast, even with 1 less damage per shot. |
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Post by mecha82 on Jan 11, 2022 4:50:05 GMT
mecha82 Are we looking at the same 2 codexes? The previously one did have some nasty tricks yes. But it required a long line of domino's to go right and costed CP. This new book is much more reliable and less CP hungry. (Although the vigulus rules where amazing, they have not been legal since 9th edition dropped.) Nasty comboes before was alphus giving +1 to ridge runners and then oveoading said group of ridge runners. That trick is stil there, although you don't need the alphus. Realizable charges (at a very very steep cp cost) We have that now as well, but not at the cost od cp. Most common is 3d6 discard lowest on a charge 8 but you can push that to I clude re-roll and +1 to the roll. Abberants now hit on 3+ with a D3 weapon. Crossfire rules gives +1 to hit and +1 to wound is massive. All of this much improved and we are not CP gimped. Love it. We stil can't take a punch, but that is the army design. (Arguably ouer big vehicles and abberants might be a thing to spam to be 'thick'.) We are indeed talking about the same 2 codexes. In my experience the previous codex was cp hungry, but it had some incredibly reliable means of dealing incredible damage to take out important targets right away. Bomb bikes were guaranteed to take out an important target, and there wasn't much your opponent could do about it. Pop up within 3", Launch 10 demo charges, pop strat to get +1 to hit/wound = dead anything. Losing that option will hurt the cult big time, especially if a specific unit counters us hard. You don't need the alphus, sure... but you'll need to be on the other side of the unit to benefit from the "expose" side of crossfire, and good luck doing that without putting your unit's butt to some murderblender unit. 3d6 discard lowest at charge 8 isn't bad sure... but it's still way worse than D6 movement + charge 7 which we had before. It costed cp yeah, but it was practically guaranteed for an important unit. Abberants already hit on a 3+ with a D3 weapon. They were often paired with the Primus whom gave them +1 to hit. What's more is that the Biophagus ability was nerfed pretty harshly, we can't get +1 Str or +1 Atk with it anymore. (5+ feel no pain is better tho) But they lost their natural 5+ FNP, so it's still debatably just giving them what they used to have. Also Abberants lost their ability to attack twice, which could total titans with ease. We might not be CP gimped anymore, but I really don't like what I've read of the rules so far, as I think they aren't an improvement, and we lost a lot of our powerful tools. However, as I said before, I doubt I am right when everyone else says otherwise, and once the codex comes out I'll give them a fair trial before I judge them fully. |
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Post by Hive Bahamut on Jan 11, 2022 6:00:00 GMT
I do believe they are not going to be the same. 5-10 with massive stat upgrades are because they are elites and few in number. Also changing their claws names to Purestrain makes me think this. Tyranids use mass production cookie cutter units. Best case example is Broodlord vs. Patriarch. On paper they are not even close, and lore they match this difference. We will see, but for the first time since Inception, the Codex named AFTER Genestealers, actually has good Genestealers. Looks like SOMEONE slept in Tyranid school! If you look at the current profiles of the Broodlord vs Patriarch, (not the new codex, it's not out yet) they are almost EXACTLY the same! And there is good reason for this, in lore a Patriarch becomes a Broodlord when the Hive Fleet descends and takes over the Patriarch's mind. They are literally the same unit, on paper AND in lore. But otherwise, yes. Tyranids do have a habit of mass production. But they also occasionally make something unique and deadly. The Doom of Malantai is still canon, even if we don't have a model or rules for it. Aww I love these. Tyranid school? There's an entire thread digging into how vastly different they are. Grim dark arc. Check it out. Every snippet I could find about Genestealers is there. You might be surprised about many of the misconceptions. Ex. Ymgarls Book wise: Movement, Strength, Fearless @6", Psychic tree and casting, zero Creed, has to be Warlord and 1 per detachment, lynchpin vs. Throwaway fight on death, Stratagem access (or lack of for Patriarch,) useful relics and traits, 1 of 2 casters vs almost all HQ, transport capacity in codex and points. That is just a quick list off the top of my head. Lore wise they are almost polar opposites Broodlord= Fight Patriarch = Flight You are incorrect. A Patriarch can become a Broodlord but a Broodlord will never become a Patriarch. Or at least it has never been mentioned. (It would make for a rad story.) The process isn't there. A Patriarch is filled with a Gestalt Consciousness of many hybrids over potentially hundreds of years (humans have emotion and things Nids don't use/need.) Whereas a Broodlord is just another Node in the Synaptic Web. One is built up over generations of hiding whereas the other basically lives Groundhog day, over, and over. If you wanted to argue uniqueness I would go a step further and say prototypes. This I can agree with. Stress response systems that are too dangerous and valuable to become common knowledge amongst the food races. |
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