2k Thicc Stampede and Kronos Trigger

[kazetanade]

The issue is probably more of "I need so many things behind obscuring already and I don't have a lot of it".

I also feel like in this list, Fall Back Shoot Charge is not as great as the infantry based list. Most things there don't need it so much. But I've had a magnetized Trygon that has never seen the table so I'd be stoked to bring it out to play...

[zimko]

The Infantry based list has redundancy and multiple options to get things done. Fallback/shoot and charge is important for the Crusher Stampede list because your big beasties need to pull their weight, and they can't do that if they're in melee with something way under their value but annoying enough to survive.

As for hiding... crusher stampede is running a lot of 18 wound models. The only units that really need to hide are Hive Guard, Swarmlord and the Trygon.

[No One]

Yeah, the link's definitely more valuable for AoR, as is the trygon itself. Still feels like it'd be awkward to utilise and the trygon just isn't enough to justify. If you test let me know how it goes though.

[N.I.B.]

If your Trygon is Obscured, it has to move around the shielding terrain piece, effectively losing a turn, and probably not keeping up within 12" of the things you want to move forward to melee for the fall back and charge bonus. It looks a bit clumsy in the list, but I'm sure maestro Lennon has a specific role for it to play. Personally I rather go with a Flyrant.

[purestrain]

Dec 24, 2021 12:20:42 GMT N.I.B. said:

If your Trygon is Obscured, it has to move around the shielding terrain piece, effectively losing a turn, and probably not keeping up within 12" of the things you want to move forward to melee for the fall back and charge bonus. It looks a bit clumsy in the list, but I'm sure maestro Lennon has a specific role for it to play. Personally I rather go with a Flyrant.

The synaptic link, hide the trygon so you can foil a bad touch even across the board, from what I can gather.

[piersonsmuppet]

Dec 24, 2021 12:20:42 GMT N.I.B. said:

If your Trygon is Obscured, it has to move around the shielding terrain piece, effectively losing a turn, and probably not keeping up within 12" of the things you want to move forward to melee for the fall back and charge bonus. It looks a bit clumsy in the list, but I'm sure maestro Lennon has a specific role for it to play. Personally I rather go with a Flyrant.

Trygon just has to be w/in 12" of another synapse unit that is w/in 12" of the Dule/Dima in melee, so more like ~26" (~40" if chaining two synapse zones in between Trygon/target).

[No One]

I think it's OK barbed support, but dima...is getting slung, which almost by definition puts it >12" from Swarmy, and (esp with no flyrant in the list) very unlikely to have anything forward from Swarmy. Does barb get enough from it to justify inclusion of a trygon? Eh.

[zimko]

imgur.com/gallery/6RuGuyC

I played a game against Custodes. Above is pictures and battle report.

Thoughts on the game:
- The Trygon Prime with -1 to wound relic was nice. It's in a sweet spot where not having a great ranged weapon and middling movement speed makes it a low target threat compared to the other monsters, but it deals enough damage with Murderous Size that it can hold it's own in a fight. He was for sure an all-star for me in this game and never used his synaptic link. 7 attacks and being a -1 to wound monster made him great at holding an objective against infantry and surviving incoming fire.
- The Malaceptor had a bad game. He just didn't do anything for me this game.
- On a similar note, the Hive Guard didn't do that much either. My opponent was playing defensively and I deployed them far back due to the terrain not being that large (and his tanks could move a long distance with fly in order to get an angle on them). So I played them safe. They still did decent damage tho, it just felt bad not having a target for them on turn 1, then on following turns shooting into dreadnaughts who are -1 damage.
- I need bioweapon bond on all the Warriors. The lashwhip and boneswords do nothing for me. So if I strip all their upgrades, including adrenal glands, then I can get bioweapon beast on all 3.

I need more practice. Player placed terrain definitely changes things up, but I was also surprised by how light the terrain felt. If I were using a more traditional Tyranid list, I think I would have struggled greatly with the lack of terrain. With Crusher Stampede though, the lack of terrain is an advantage, as long as there's somewhere for 1 unit of Hive Guard to hide.

[No One]

Interesting, but...well, feels like a flyrant's just so much better for that commitment if you're not getting good value from link.

[kazetanade]

If you dont bother with the -1 to wound relic on it, it's not much commitment, and is almost cost effective.

Somewhere in the back of my head, there is or was an ability to make a non-SYNAPSE creature into a SYNAPSE one, which I dont think is tied to Adaptation. I think it was a psychic spell. Assuming you could use such a spell, then the gaps or bridges can be closed quite easily. Alternatively, if you do not want to take Murderous Size (for eg if you're running a lot of FW big MCs, you dont get that much out of Size), you could take a Synapse adaptation to cover the link.

In other potentials, a Trygon is actually naturally lower priority than a lot of other stuff, even if you were to run it out into the open. Assuming you can keep your formation roughly in the same shape, you are unlikely to lose this link in the early stages of the game, which would be where its necesarry the most for aggressive or counter-stall tactics.

I think Lennon is just trialling stuff and may be using it as a counter-thicc pick, although Dimachaerons do that just fine already, they are liable for getting bogged down when you most need them to be free. HGs and Barbs are great for other scenarios, but are extremely ineffective vs thicc and Dreadnoughts.

I think someone did math on Maleceptor and his buff, and it's almost always better to get +1 to hit rather than rr damage in terms of damage output increase. Personally, with that in mind the Maleceptor doesnt bring enough to the table to justify his being around, and I rather have another more reliable damage source.

[piersonsmuppet]

Dec 25, 2021 17:03:43 GMT kazetanade said:

I think someone did math on Maleceptor and his buff, and it's almost always better to get +1 to hit rather than rr damage in terms of damage output increase. Personally, with that in mind the Maleceptor doesnt bring enough to the table to justify his being around, and I rather have another more reliable damage source.

If HG have Levi rr’s to-hit, rr dmg is better against all targets (even not factoring in the -1 AP on 6’s).

[kazetanade]

While this is actually true, I still consider Swarm Leader on HG as a general waste - other than in an AoR, since the AoR has no better targets to use it on. But instead of the Maleceptor, wouldn't it be better to bring a Harpy, or an Exocrene, or something that adds to the damage output more than the rr to damage would? I don't value Encaphalic very highly because we're already cp starved, and trying to pull tricks on both sides just burns too much cp imo. Esp if you run HG shoot twice + explodes, every turn.

[purestrain]

Dec 25, 2021 17:03:43 GMT kazetanade said:

If you dont bother with the -1 to wound relic on it, it's not much commitment, and is almost cost effective.

Somewhere in the back of my head, there is or was an ability to make a non-SYNAPSE creature into a SYNAPSE one, which I dont think is tied to Adaptation. I think it was a psychic spell. Assuming you could use such a spell, then the gaps or bridges can be closed quite easily. Alternatively, if you do not want to take Murderous Size (for eg if you're running a lot of FW big MCs, you dont get that much out of Size), you could take a Synapse adaptation to cover the link.

In other potentials, a Trygon is actually naturally lower priority than a lot of other stuff, even if you were to run it out into the open. Assuming you can keep your formation roughly in the same shape, you are unlikely to lose this link in the early stages of the game, which would be where its necesarry the most for aggressive or counter-stall tactics.

I think Lennon is just trialling stuff and may be using it as a counter-thicc pick, although Dimachaerons do that just fine already, they are liable for getting bogged down when you most need them to be free. HGs and Barbs are great for other scenarios, but are extremely ineffective vs thicc and Dreadnoughts.

I think someone did math on Maleceptor and his buff, and it's almost always better to get +1 to hit rather than rr damage in terms of damage output increase. Personally, with that in mind the Maleceptor doesnt bring enough to the table to justify his being around, and I rather have another more reliable damage source.

Its an AP, there's also the new leviathan strat to allow a unit that doesn't have synapse to count as being in range of synapse, but thats only for the fearless and IB of it.

[zimko]

Dec 25, 2021 6:21:19 GMT No One said:

Interesting, but...well, feels like a flyrant's just so much better for that commitment if you're not getting good value from link.

I didn't get good value in this 1 game from the synaptic link but the Trygon was still useful and filled a role. More playtesting is required to determine if there are other matchups where the link will come in handy or if the Trygon becomes less useful than a Flyrant in other matchups. However, in this game I think the Trygon performed just as well as a flyrant would have in the same role. 

[zimko]

Dec 25, 2021 17:03:43 GMT kazetanade said:

If you dont bother with the -1 to wound relic on it, it's not much commitment, and is almost cost effective.

Somewhere in the back of my head, there is or was an ability to make a non-SYNAPSE creature into a SYNAPSE one, which I dont think is tied to Adaptation. I think it was a psychic spell. Assuming you could use such a spell, then the gaps or bridges can be closed quite easily. Alternatively, if you do not want to take Murderous Size (for eg if you're running a lot of FW big MCs, you dont get that much out of Size), you could take a Synapse adaptation to cover the link.

In other potentials, a Trygon is actually naturally lower priority than a lot of other stuff, even if you were to run it out into the open. Assuming you can keep your formation roughly in the same shape, you are unlikely to lose this link in the early stages of the game, which would be where its necesarry the most for aggressive or counter-stall tactics.

I think Lennon is just trialling stuff and may be using it as a counter-thicc pick, although Dimachaerons do that just fine already, they are liable for getting bogged down when you most need them to be free. HGs and Barbs are great for other scenarios, but are extremely ineffective vs thicc and Dreadnoughts.

I think someone did math on Maleceptor and his buff, and it's almost always better to get +1 to hit rather than rr damage in terms of damage output increase. Personally, with that in mind the Maleceptor doesnt bring enough to the table to justify his being around, and I rather have another more reliable damage source.

So far, the Maleceptor is the first unit I'm considering to drop. I'd like to replace it with a Tyrannocyte or Exocrine but that would require at least 2 CP to turn this Battalion into 2 Patrols due to the Heavy Support slots being filled. Instead, I'm strongly considering a walkrant with a HVC and M.S.Talons. He'd replace the Maleceptor as another psyker and has the same resilience as a Malaceptor. He'd also provide a little bit of ranged damage output and more melee damage output, plus 2" of extra speed. They cost exactly the same amount of points.

But I think I'm also just not playing the Maleceptor as well as I could. 

EDIT: Another wild thought just occurred to me. I could give wings to the Hive Tyrant, but drop all his weapons to Rending Claws to keep him at 185 pts. He'd basically just be a super mobile psychic platform with a little bit of melee. Give him Onslaught and Psychic Scream for powers. He'd use Onslaught when it's needed but otherwise would just output 2d3 mortals and be generally another annoying monster that can hold objectives, move fast and perform psychic interrigation or warp ritual when needed (hopefully not needed tho if I can protect the Neurothrope better.)