18 Hive Guard?

[tomb]

The legend that is Mani Chema (UK no 1 player) has painted 18 Leviathan Hive Guard.

Mani has seen success with various lists that have 'pushed the envelope' of what can be taken and has had some (relative to his ability) success running artillery heavy armies in the past.

I'm interested in knowing what he'll be adding into the list to make them work. I've seen 18 hive guard do about as well as no hive guard at the Goonhammer Open GT.

Or this may be his (team Glasshammer) list for the upcoming International Team event...

Will Leviathan make all 18 shine, does it take a pro player to crack the Leviathan code? I have no idea but I'm hoping and looking forwards to Mani taking Nids to the top tables here in the U.K.

[bestaltan]

I think the problem with that sort of”eggs in one basket” approach is you will run into some very hard matchups. By the time you add supports to those three hive guard units, you are well over half your army, and you still don’t have answers for some key units. You will probably start seeing knights now that they have obsec capability, and knights can tank that many S8 shots with some success. Terminator blobs shrug off hive guard shots, as do dreadnoughts, and they are very common now in tournament lists. With that many points in static units, fast armies will simply outscore you, or fly past your few screens and dive into the hive guard. Scoring points is now the primary concern, and hive guard don’t really do that.

[purestrain]

18 guard, 3 warriors and a (please do not swear) ton of gribblies to clog anything able to get near enough to kill them.

+1 Hit to each unit a turn, reroll hit rolls for one, 2cp to change another to Kronos for rerolls of 1 and the third either gets exploding 6s if nothings better for it or just straight up 12 shots at 2+

[acehilator]

Tabletop Tactics have a batrep with 18 HG, sadly it's prior to the release of the Octarius book, so they are run as Kronos.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ia9SUuqE6Ik

[bestaltan]

Nov 10, 2021 20:33:11 GMT acehilator said:

Tabletop Tactics have a batrep with 18 HG, sadly it's prior to the release of the Octarius book, so they are run as Kronos.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ia9SUuqE6Ik

If you watch the end of that bar rep, she actually points out the flaws of the list……hard to score secondaries, doesn’t want to move, and crumples pretty fast in the later game against an army that can take the hits.

[No One]

tomb said:

Or this may be his (team Glasshammer) list for the upcoming International Team event...

This would make a lot of sense: teams format means that you can push that sort of skew into the match ups where you're not as punished by a list that looks to run you over, or punish your lack of scoring/board presence, and can also secure good terrain set ups (which you really need with that many HG).

The other thing is that with 18 you can sort of afford to push a unit up more aggressively (esp with WLT) and not be as sad when it inevitably dies, which would help to pressure armies that want to outrange early/need squishy backfield scoring to be out of range to live.

[acehilator]

Nov 11, 2021 0:20:03 GMT bestaltan said:

If you watch the end of that bar rep, she actually points out the flaws of the list……hard to score secondaries, doesn’t want to move, and crumples pretty fast in the later game against an army that can take the hits.

Uhm... and? I didn't make any claim towards the practicality of such a list.

[deviousdonut]

i don't see why you would ever want more than 2 units, very much diminishing returns. 1 unit is great, and if you take a second unit i feel like you want it to be kronos with symbiostorm. Leviathan squad gets reroll hits and damage and exploding 6s strat and shoots twice, kronos get symbiostorm and +1 to hit. A third unit just eats up 300 points to probably be difficult to hide and is only 12 more shots at targets that your 36 other buffed shots probably already killed or you're just shooting at units that your damage profile isn't very favorable against

[bestaltan]

Nov 11, 2021 16:22:59 GMT acehilator said:

Nov 11, 2021 0:20:03 GMT bestaltan said:

If you watch the end of that bar rep, she actually points out the flaws of the list……hard to score secondaries, doesn’t want to move, and crumples pretty fast in the later game against an army that can take the hits.

Uhm... and? I didn't make any claim towards the practicality of such a list.

Yes, but the point of the thread is whether 18 hive guard is a viable competitive option. When even the woman in the bat rep you posted states the flaws of the list, then it’s something that needs to be pointed out. Since, you know, that’s what the thread is about.

[purestrain]

Nov 12, 2021 13:48:59 GMT bestaltan said:

Nov 11, 2021 16:22:59 GMT acehilator said:

Uhm... and? I didn't make any claim towards the practicality of such a list.

Yes, but the point of the thread is whether 18 hive guard is a viable competitive option. When even the woman in the bat rep you posted states the flaws of the list, then it’s something that needs to be pointed out. Since, you know, that’s what the thread is about.

Oddly sexist, but... hes got a point?

P.S. Dont be so sexist.

[hivefleetkerrigan]

Nov 12, 2021 13:48:59 GMT bestaltan said:

When even the woman in the bat rep you posted states the flaws of the list, then it’s something that needs to be pointed out.

Were you trying to state that even the person running the list was stating its short comings, then you know it had problems? If so then the wording was poorly done.

The way I read the comment was that "oh, if a woman figured out a 40k problem then it's obviously an issue." Which... just don't be sexist. If you want this game to thrive, then don't make sexist or racist comments. Generally, 40k is predominantly a bunch of Caucasian males. Comments that insult a particular group can lead people from that group to think that they don't belong, which means they'll be less likely to join the 40k community. If we want to grow and thrive as a community, we should be trying to help others join, not keeping them out.

Tldr; don't make sexist or racist comments. It reflects poorly on the 40k community and could inhibit others from joining.

[acehilator]

Nov 12, 2021 13:48:59 GMT bestaltan said:

Yes, but the point of the thread is whether 18 hive guard is a viable competitive option. When even the woman in the bat rep you posted states the flaws of the list, then it’s something that needs to be pointed out. Since, you know, that’s what the thread is about.

Yeah. But why quote my post? That's not neccessary when you just want to make a statement.

[bestaltan]

Some of you have serious problems if you immediately assumed I was being sexist for what I said.

Was there a woman in the bat rep? Yes.

Was she playing Nids? Yes.

Was she playing 18 hive guard? Yes.

Did she point out the flaws with running 18 hive guard in a list? Yes.

Did her points match what I was saying? Yes.



And. That’s. It. 🙄

Automatically accusing someone of being sexist for a single word when you don’t even know the gender, background, life choices, or motivations of that person says a lot.

[tomb]

Nov 11, 2021 0:20:03 GMT bestaltan said:

Nov 10, 2021 20:33:11 GMT acehilator said:

Tabletop Tactics have a batrep with 18 HG, sadly it's prior to the release of the Octarius book, so they are run as Kronos.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ia9SUuqE6Ik

If you watch the end of that bar rep, she actually points out the flaws of the list……hard to score secondaries, doesn’t want to move, and crumples pretty fast in the later game against an army that can take the hits.

I haven't watched the batrep but I do know Jinx, she regularly plays 12 hive guard and I know that her assessment comes from experience. 

Thanks both to Acehilator for pointing out the bat rep too us and to Bestalten for summarising Jinx's comments.

[Freeman]

My understanding is the list Mani is running is one unit of them as leviathan then two units in a Kronos patrol with a warrior link unit each.

For me it looks like it’ll run out of CP too fast but Mani really is very good, and I’m tempted to trust his opinion over mine. Lol