Has anyone tried out Maleceptor and Monsters?

[topaxygourouni]

Nov 11, 2021 23:18:30 GMT hungryone said:

Nov 9, 2021 23:46:12 GMT topaxygourouni said:

I have, but not in the sense you describe. Maleceptor synaptic link is still going on the hive guard, this is not negotiable. But the rest of my list is either T8 or T3 only. Tervigon with carapace, exo, scythed, acidfex. 4 fat T8 monsters and encephalic diffusion creates a hell of a headache for the opponent.

Forget about Trygons and toxicrenes until the next codex arrives. The only way we can use monsters is to double up (or triple up or quadruple up) on a specific strong aspect and overload the table with it. So lots of T8 + diffusion, go. Lots of 4++ monsters, go. But be consistent and do not mix the aspects, or you give the opponent favourable decisions. But footslogging T6-7 monsters without invuln...nop.

Unless they drop like 40 pts each in next Chapter approved or something.

Cool idea, but how these monsters have 4++? And what do you mean by mixing the aspects?
The problem with the Exocrine is that is not anymore the star in the army, the nerfing of Symbiostorm hits him quite hard.

I mean either go all T8 + diffusion, or go all 4++ (swarmy, Tyrants, maleceptor). If you have 2 T8 and 2 T7 with 4++, then the opponent can choose favourably what to shoot. IE shoot my ap-3 against the non invuln monsters, shoot my ap-1 against the 4++.

If you only have one kind of profile, you affect opponent weapons much more.

Exo doesn't need to be the star any more. We have stuff for that role now. But it is still 12 shots 7,-3,2 for 100 pts less than the HG (or the barbed). If you compare it with stuff that cost 100 pts more of course it's going to look worse. But for its points, it has a pretty damn good damage output and still keeps that sexy T8.

[kazetanade]

His main problem being ramshackle effects primarily, as well as pseudo transhuman effects. But apparently neither are in big stock.

I think there's a decent case to push back the Exocrene into lists, if the presence of ramshackle is less prevalent. But I feel he really needs the rerolls 1 and 2 to wound from Tervigon, which is hellahard to fit in (and you want Kronos rr1s to hjt)...

[hungryone]

Nov 11, 2021 23:28:02 GMT topaxygourouni said:

Nov 11, 2021 23:18:30 GMT hungryone said:

Cool idea, but how these monsters have 4++? And what do you mean by mixing the aspects?
The problem with the Exocrine is that is not anymore the star in the army, the nerfing of Symbiostorm hits him quite hard.

I mean either go all T8 + diffusion, or go all 4++ (swarmy, Tyrants, maleceptor). If you have 2 T8 and 2 T7 with 4++, then the opponent can choose favourably what to shoot. IE shoot my ap-3 against the non invuln monsters, shoot my ap-1 against the 4++.

If you only have one kind of profile, you affect opponent weapons much more.

Exo doesn't need to be the star any more. We have stuff for that role now. But it is still 12 shots 7,-3,2 for 100 pts less than the HG (or the barbed). If you compare it with stuff that cost 100 pts more of course it's going to look worse. But for its points, it has a pretty damn good damage output and still keeps that sexy T8.

Oh ok, so you mean including just T8 profiles and then fill the rest of the army with T3?
For sure this complicate your opponent decision, but also sure that everything big will be easy target of heavy artillery and with no invulnerable saves.

6++ of Leviathan doesn't let them survive long also, you need to cast catalyst and dermic symbiosis on someones.

[kazetanade]

Nov 12, 2021 7:00:45 GMT hungryone said:

Nov 11, 2021 23:28:02 GMT topaxygourouni said:

I mean either go all T8 + diffusion, or go all 4++ (swarmy, Tyrants, maleceptor). If you have 2 T8 and 2 T7 with 4++, then the opponent can choose favourably what to shoot. IE shoot my ap-3 against the non invuln monsters, shoot my ap-1 against the 4++.

If you only have one kind of profile, you affect opponent weapons much more.

Exo doesn't need to be the star any more. We have stuff for that role now. But it is still 12 shots 7,-3,2 for 100 pts less than the HG (or the barbed). If you compare it with stuff that cost 100 pts more of course it's going to look worse. But for its points, it has a pretty damn good damage output and still keeps that sexy T8.

Oh ok, so you mean including just T8 profiles and then fill the rest of the army with T3?
For sure this complicate your opponent decision, but also sure that everything big will be easy target of heavy artillery and with no invulnerable saves.

6++ of Leviathan doesn't let them survive long also, you need to cast catalyst and dermic symbiosis on someones.

Its called threat overload. Sure everything is a target - but everything also demands attention at the same time. Can you kill them all before they kill you?

[topaxygourouni]

Nov 12, 2021 7:00:45 GMT hungryone said:

Nov 11, 2021 23:28:02 GMT topaxygourouni said:

I mean either go all T8 + diffusion, or go all 4++ (swarmy, Tyrants, maleceptor). If you have 2 T8 and 2 T7 with 4++, then the opponent can choose favourably what to shoot. IE shoot my ap-3 against the non invuln monsters, shoot my ap-1 against the 4++.

If you only have one kind of profile, you affect opponent weapons much more.

Exo doesn't need to be the star any more. We have stuff for that role now. But it is still 12 shots 7,-3,2 for 100 pts less than the HG (or the barbed). If you compare it with stuff that cost 100 pts more of course it's going to look worse. But for its points, it has a pretty damn good damage output and still keeps that sexy T8.

Oh ok, so you mean including just T8 profiles and then fill the rest of the army with T3?
For sure this complicate your opponent decision, but also sure that everything big will be easy target of heavy artillery and with no invulnerable saves.

6++ of Leviathan doesn't let them survive long also, you need to cast catalyst and dermic symbiosis on someones.

I'm pretty sure my guys will be safe. That's the beauty of diffusion + T8. Means that everything outside cognis lascannons ( and these are going to get much more rare after the balance patch) are wounding the monsters on 5+.

See those Sister multimeltas? 5+ to wound, please. Oh you're targetting the tervigon? 6+ to wound please. Dark lances? 5+ please tyvm. Scarab Occult massed bolter fire? 6+ to wound please. You downplay T8 en masse. This isn't 5-6 wounds they need to get through, this is 13-18 for each monster.

[topaxygourouni]

Nov 12, 2021 5:07:35 GMT kazetanade said:

His main problem being ramshackle effects primarily, as well as pseudo transhuman effects. But apparently neither are in big stock.

I think there's a decent case to push back the Exocrene into lists, if the presence of ramshackle is less prevalent. But I feel he really needs the rerolls 1 and 2 to wound from Tervigon, which is hellahard to fit in (and you want Kronos rr1s to hjt)...

Exo is sweet because of the resurgence of elite infantry. Especially great against GK, both wounding NDK on 3+ and forcing invuln saves AND having the perfect profile to kill interceptors. Same goes with vanguard vets, rubric marines (even Scarabs if you pay for 3damage). Still murders raiders with impunity. With strategic adaptation it can go into reserves for free then come out, count as stationary and shoot.

It's not as sexy as it was in pre-symbiostorm nerf times, but also this is a different game now. Drukhari will start moving away from infantry spam and more into Talos / grotesque play, admech are going to have 4 planes less and their army 10% more expensive. Orks will only have so many buggies now, so ramshackle becomes less of a pain (but still probably pain enough). GK will grow in popularity, DG will come back into play after the nerfs.

There's a new meta coming up, and I wouldn't mind at all seeing the exos making a glorious comeback.

[No One]

topaxygourouni said:

With strategic adaptation it can go into reserves for free then come out, count as stationary and shoot.

You can't ever count as Remained Stationary from reserves.

It's not as sexy as it was in pre-symbiostorm nerf times, but also this is a different game now. Drukhari will start moving away from infantry spam and more into Talos / grotesque play, admech are going to have 4 planes less and their army 10% more expensive. Orks will only have so many buggies now, so ramshackle becomes less of a pain (but still probably pain enough). GK will grow in popularity, DG will come back into play after the nerfs.

Talos/grots are the sort of profile that exo doesn't really like with -1 damage coven.

[topaxygourouni]

Why must you crush my dreams like that?

I still like Exo. 100 pts less than barbed is a lot of points less. Ye barbed moves and shoots supalazors and has big teeth and claws and whatever else. You get a barbed, I get an exo and a neuro for the same money.

[brianb9999]

I was discussing this in the other thread, but exo on paper is potentially GREAT into GK who I figure to be one of the most popular competitive options now. I think the 2 main questions are going to be, will they be effective enough in leviathan (only real new buffs for them are relentless flurry and tervigon synapse link), and will they be effective in enough matchups? T8 spam and -1 damage feels really bad, as well as anything that can outrange them. They can be a good target for redeployment though, either to get into a good shooting position or hide depending on the situation.