Deciding turn in 9e?

[hivefleetkerrigan]

Recently, my FLGS started up a 40k league again. All of my games this far have been decided on either turn 1 or turn 2. Generally, it's combing down to one side largely being shot off the board so there is an insurmountable lead for both models and points. The league is using the base rule book matched play missions.

Is anyone else experiencing the same phenomenon where most games are decided in the first two turns?

[zimko]

Most of the time it's decided by turn 3, but I've had several games that come down to the last turn. Do you play with enough terrain? If models are getting shot off the board that soon then perhaps you need more terrain.

[hivefleetkerrigan]

Aug 31, 2021 13:42:39 GMT zimko said:

Most of the time it's decided by turn 3, but I've had several games that come down to the last turn. Do you play with enough terrain? If models are getting shot off the board that soon then perhaps you need more terrain.

Generally, I think we play with enough terrain. Our setups are usually having 4 large pieces of terrain in the corners, a large piece of terrain for line of sight block in the middle, and usually some additional terrain on the edges. It could be we need to move the terrain around or mix up how it's used.

I'm also not sure if my list is just very skewed or if it's a factor of using 1500 points instead of 2000.

My list is:
2x neurothrope
1x broodlord
2x29 devourer gaunts
1x29 hormogaunts
2x10 genestealers
2x lichtors
6 hive guard.

The games thus far have been:
1. Vs orks - win forfeit in top of turn two. I go first, don't kill much. He da jumps in and does some damage. My devourer gaunts kill off most of his remaining boyz
2. Vs guard - loss. He ran 4 punisher tanks + some additional tanks. Hard counters happen
3. Vs necrons - win on turn 4, largely decided at bottom of 1. My opponent played to aggressively and telepory d across the board with melee destroyers and failed a charge. Hive guard + stealers clean them up while dakka gaunts + other stealers deal with immortals
4. Vs harlequins - win on turn 2. Opponent was playing a non conventional list. He goes first and does some damage in shooting. On my turn, I wipe out his 8 bikes, one heavy support, and almost kill a second. On my next turn, I kill all but two of his models
5. Vs dark eldar - win, lately decided by turn 2. Tabled him on turn 4. He played aggressively with his raiders. I killed two on my turn and damaged some others. Do more damage on turn 2, etc

[zimko]

Our tables have 8 pieces of obscuring ruins (4 of them larger and forming a diamond near the middle, 4 of them smaller in the corners) with few windows. 1 'forest' in the middle of the board and 2 scalable walls on the sides.

[mattblowers]

Tyranids and GSC are in a very tough spot at the moment. It's playing the game on hard mode.

[kazetanade]

Deciding turns are generally T3 or T4 - if your games are being decided T1 or T2 its:

1. Lack of terrain placement, making who has better shooting wins

2. Hyper aggressive strategies that either work or don't and lose the game

3. Bad objective decisions

4. Poor (or uneven) list design

[tomb]

Aug 31, 2021 14:29:54 GMT hivefleetkerrigan said:

Aug 31, 2021 13:42:39 GMT zimko said:

Most of the time it's decided by turn 3, but I've had several games that come down to the last turn. Do you play with enough terrain? If models are getting shot off the board that soon then perhaps you need more terrain.

Generally, I think we play with enough terrain. Our setups are usually having 4 large pieces of terrain in the corners, a large piece of terrain for line of sight block in the middle, and usually some additional terrain on the edges. It could be we need to move the terrain around or mix up how it's used.

I'm also not sure if my list is just very skewed or if it's a factor of using 1500 points instead of 2000.

My list is:
2x neurothrope
1x broodlord
2x29 devourer gaunts
1x29 hormogaunts
2x10 genestealers
2x lichtors
6 hive guard.

The games thus far have been:
1. Vs orks - win forfeit in top of turn two. I go first, don't kill much. He da jumps in and does some damage. My devourer gaunts kill off most of his remaining boyz
2. Vs guard - loss. He ran 4 punisher tanks + some additional tanks. Hard counters happen
3. Vs necrons - win on turn 4, largely decided at bottom of 1. My opponent played to aggressively and telepory d across the board with melee destroyers and failed a charge. Hive guard + stealers clean them up while dakka gaunts + other stealers deal with immortals
4. Vs harlequins - win on turn 2. Opponent was playing a non conventional list. He goes first and does some damage in shooting. On my turn, I wipe out his 8 bikes, one heavy support, and almost kill a second. On my next turn, I kill all but two of his models
5. Vs dark eldar - win, lately decided by turn 2. Tabled him on turn 4. He played aggressively with his raiders. I killed two on my turn and damaged some others. Do more damage on turn 2, etc

Out of interest are you playing Kraken and Kronos? Double Dev gaunts is saucy.

On topic do you find that your boards have wide fire lanes and open objectives or is the large amount of shooting coming from building to building.
Are objectives behind LOS blocking or in buildings?

[hivefleetkerrigan]

I'm running a custom fleet actually: 6++ invul save for gaunts and -1 AP if I outnumber my opponent in melee.

For objectives they've generally been in front of but close to terrain, so you can claim them from inside the terrain. I generally try to limit firing lanes so most of my shooting has been done from outside buildings.

[piersonsmuppet]

All of my games have been decided by T2 or T5, with the majority being determined by the player with last turn holding the opponent to just 5 primary VP and being able to score 15 primary VP at end of turn. If it’s determined by T2, it is because someone gambled on a high risk high reward play and lost. I’ve had games decided T2 by my picking a psychic secondary and flopping, but the GT 2021 psychic secondaries have been reliable enough that I can still overcome some stumbles.

[haazelthorn]

Hi!

 In my opinion it depends on the victory conditions that You are playing on. If You play a simple Win/Draw/Lose, than you might concede by turn 3. But If You play for example with a Swiss type, than it is often profitbale to play till the end and make your defeat not as crushing

[afewveiws]

Based on the game examples given, your opponents are being hyper aggressive and failing. The 2 exceptions was the all tank list, which is a counter to your scew list, and a probably objectively worst list, you called it "unconventional."

So i'd say that your experience so far has been the result of an inexperienced play group starting back up and you will all grow to be better in time and you'll start seeing games decided on turn 3-4 instead and your list will need to change to accommodate prolonged games with more objective focused play in mind.

But for now, just enjoy the easy games.

[trashcan01]

In my (limited experience) turn three is the deciding factor because by that time most of my units are within charge range. Important deep strikes take place and I'm able to threaten and control the map.

All turns are important, but I assume that on Turn 3 you still have enough bodies on the table to take out essential enemy targets. If you spend more than 3 turns shooting at something that threatens your army comp and it is still alive - you should review your tactics and the army roster.

Turns 4 and 5 is basically doing whatever you can with what you have left, and by that point in the game it is already clear will you be able to max out your secondary objectives. Most of the games primary points are about even (losing early, catching up on mid/late), but the secondary objective points make all the difference.

[hivefleetkerrigan]

As an update, I played 3 more games for the FLGS league. The deciding turn was 3 in two games and 2 in another. Cagier play and more terrain helped. The one game where the deciding turn was 2 came down to a mistake on my end: my opponent deep striked and killed my hive guard. I thought I'd screened him out but had left a small opening.

[Hive Bahamut]

I also vote 3rd, but a lot of games are actually decided before a single model drops.

Mission-list-matchup-experience-first turn and logistics/rolling. So many variables you can only perfect a few.

I am no professional but if I see a tournie list in the hands of a decent pilot I am in trouble. The last blowout (not tournie list but bad matchup,) I even guessed how many units I would kill. 3. I killed 3. 6 Bullgryn, 10 infantry and 1 Chimera. Took 4 turns to remove just under 400 points of my opponents army, while they picked up 1/4 each turn of mine. I lost, but only by 18 points (1 turn primary + change)


There is zero reason to concede in 9th. I find it disrespectful and in poor taste, and this is coming from someone who threw in the towel all the time pre-8th. You can always beat your high score.