Opinion: Reinforcement Stratagems

[puppylaser]

Should stratagems like 'Call the brood", 'Endless Swarm', or 'Sporefield' cost points for the models placed?

Would they be any good if they didn't?

[dranzyl]

The popular consensus is that if you are paying points you might as well start them on the table (or outflank/deepstrike them as a lot of units already have that ability natively).

Unless you wanted to play something like 2 units of 20 gaunts and only had 20 models in your collection, there isnt much incentive to not start them on the table.

[yoritomo]

He’s asking if those stratagems should cost reinforcement points, and if they did not would they be worth using.


The answer to the first question is yes, they should cost points. “Free” units is a slippery slope. There are plenty of examples of “free” units and upgrades ruining the game. AoS Nagash and 7th edition Space Marine battle companies come to mind. If you lived through those metas then you know you don’t want to let that cat out of the bag again.

The answer to the second question is no, they are not viable even if those units were free. The problem here is that the resurrected unit does not have the ability to get back in the fight. The back edge of the table is a long way to go to get to anything but the backfield objectives; especially if they come back on turn four or five. Even coming on from a side edge doesn’t help that much. Until we get the ability to consistently put them on the table where it counts these stratagems will not be playable.

[afewveiws]

I think it depends on how many cp they cost. For 1 cp you should need reseeve points, but if they are going to charge 3 cp for 5 genestealers then there shouldnt be any reseeve points required.

So i would get rid of the reserves point thing and price the cp cost accordingly. And keep in mind, they arent free units, they cost the stratagem usage. Anyone who played before strats should understand how much that changed how the game had to be played. Cp is a limited resource that can determine the outcome of games, so spending it on specific units that are rigid options isnt broken by any means, provided they can get the cp cost right.

[No One]

Should they cost pts? Depends: considering that green tide/tide of traitors exists, being mirrors of those would be mostly fine (some possible issues with Hydra/devilgants depending on wording).
Would they be viable if they didn't cost pts? Endless swarm: 100%. At 2 CP unlimited almost certainly broken (just spam 20-30 blobs of devilgants: if they die, 2 CP for 210 pts free with outflank). But 2/3 CP once per game unit regen would should be fine, though strong.
Call the brood/sporefield? No/maybe: the issue with those is more the CP cost is just too high, though it's borderline on sporefield.

yoritomo said:

The answer to the second question is no, they are not viable even if those units were free. The problem here is that the resurrected unit does not have the ability to get back in the fight.

...Yori, no. Endless is any board edge, which is totally viable. Call the brood is broodlord (but just bad in general). Sporefield is outside 12" pregame. The only issue with these is the CP cost.

[hivefleetkerrigan]

If you ever play power level, endless swarm is 100% broken. Any eligible unit with a nice upgrade goes down? Bring it back for 2cp. A friend and I house ruled endless swarm to be once per game to avoid how broken that strategem can be.

Sporemine field would probably have some more uses but not be broken if it didn't cost CP. I'm thinking that the genestealer strategem would have some niche use cases but not be used every game.

[infornography]

I think this kinda shows the shortsightedness of having two different points mechanics in the game. When a strategem is of absolutely no utility in one type and completely overpowering in the other they messed up. I kind of get why they did it, but the implementation has been sloppy and poorly balanced.

[yoritomo]

So it is. Shows how often I use endless swarm

If the respawned unit comes in from any table edge, specifically the back edge, then I will have to reevaluate my position. After all, spending a few Cp to get unit of hydra stealers in 9” of my opponent is pretty good.

[infornography]

Jun 7, 2021 17:10:27 GMT yoritomo said:

So it is. Shows how often I use endless swarm

If the respawned unit comes in from any table edge, specifically the back edge, then I will have to reevaluate my position. After all, spending a few Cp to get unit of hydra stealers in 9” of my opponent is pretty good.

Unless I am mistaken, or something changed since 9th dropped, any units summoned this way are not considered part of any detachment and therefore do not get any bonuses related to hive fleet.

Something to consider.

[hivefleetkerrigan]

Jun 7, 2021 17:16:10 GMT infornography said:

Jun 7, 2021 17:10:27 GMT yoritomo said:

So it is. Shows how often I use endless swarm

If the respawned unit comes in from any table edge, specifically the back edge, then I will have to reevaluate my position. After all, spending a few Cp to get unit of hydra stealers in 9” of my opponent is pretty good.

Unless I am mistaken, or something changed since 9th dropped, any units summoned this way are not considered part of any detachment and therefore do not get any bonuses related to hive fleet.

Something to consider.

The strategem states that the unit is an exact copy. I've always taken that to mean that it receives the exact buffs as before.