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Post by papo28 on Mar 28, 2021 20:16:34 GMT
I'm finding with the smaller board size and with how castles are pretty well dead I'm not missing the kraken strategem or 3d6 advance anymore. The full reroll charges across the board have been so nice for potential turn 1 charges
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Post by piersonsmuppet on Mar 28, 2021 22:02:20 GMT
I'm finding with the smaller board size and with how castles are pretty well dead I'm not missing the kraken strategem or 3d6 advance anymore. The full reroll charges across the board have been so nice for potential turn 1 charges I was more focusing on the third Kraken bonus, fallback & charge for the Tyrant. Who cares if your big un-killable nightmare is in combat with things the opponent wants you to waste time killing? Army wide increased charge success is cool, but still not a guarantee. Fallback & charge w/ 16" M is a guarantee that you can choose what the Tyrant fights every turn, not the opponent. I've also found Kraken's power to be more than enough when needing boost charge success to Behemoth's levels, so my opinion is probably a bit biased.
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Post by papo28 on Mar 28, 2021 22:37:57 GMT
You do have a point the fall back flexibility is so nice. Especially o your units that aren't hq. Missing out I psychic hurts a little bit tho. Everytime I make a custom fleet I find myself really missing the behemoth strat paired with acid blood and -1ap strat along with the behemoth psychic power. Especially when I run 60 horms in every list. I've had 30 gaunts wipe full units of sanguinary guard no problem. And don't get me started wen you put toxin sacs o tem ya it's 60 points but the couple times I've done it they haven't failed me wounding any tank on a 5+ at 2d and -1 ap each it's a real nasty surprise and I find my hos usually don't get targeted especially turn 1
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Post by asvic on Mar 29, 2021 6:33:04 GMT
People (please do not swear) on tyrant guard to much. Problem with this forum is people don't think outside of the box I run them with my unkillable power house tyrant and have yet had him die in a game. Trick is run behemoth. Give your tyrant scy tals and HVC. Give him scythe tyrant relic. Give him warlord trait to minus 1 damage after first phase of damage tyrant guard make it really easy to control that out put. Then give him the physiology to regain 3 wounds a turn. He's actually an unstoppable beast at that point. And if things get hairy you have the strat to potentially regain 6 wounds in a turn. >using relic scythes >without murderous size I don't understand. Your opponent will just ignore him. "Oh no, scary unkillable tyrant, it kills... 3 marines per turn?" Why HVC? He can't shoot in melee with it and he will certainly be stuck in it with his number of kills in it. What does it accomplish? It is not controlling objectives. It is not flipping them. It can't kill serious threats. A distraction? Maybe, but it won't work against experienced opponents.
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Post by kazetanade on Mar 29, 2021 7:23:10 GMT
He just wants to flex... let him flex. Its not hurting anyone, and the discussion is actually positive and helpful for readers too. Not everyone plays in top tier super competitive, and many play with less fundamentally sound players.
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Post by hiveoverall on Mar 29, 2021 8:07:14 GMT
People (please do not swear) on tyrant guard to much. Problem with this forum is people don't think outside of the box I run them with my unkillable power house tyrant and have yet had him die in a game. Trick is run behemoth. Give your tyrant scy tals and HVC. Give him scythe tyrant relic. Give him warlord trait to minus 1 damage after first phase of damage tyrant guard make it really easy to control that out put. Then give him the physiology to regain 3 wounds a turn. He's actually an unstoppable beast at that point. And if things get hairy you have the strat to potentially regain 6 wounds in a turn. >using relic scythes >without murderous size I don't understand. Your opponent will just ignore him. "Oh no, scary unkillable tyrant, it kills... 3 marines per turn?" Why HVC? He can't shoot in melee with it and he will certainly be stuck in it with his number of kills in it. What does it accomplish? It is not controlling objectives. It is not flipping them. It can't kill serious threats. A distraction? Maybe, but it won't work against experienced opponents. Or any opponent with a half decent grasp on how to scure objectives in 9th. Deathwing terminators in particular will laugh at a "super" behemoth tyrant (not that super anymore when you see the last codices relased).
I think loading up on tyrant guards ATM is possibly the worst play one can go for with nids.
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Post by purestrain on Mar 29, 2021 14:56:32 GMT
I can see them being bawlin in crusade games though, tyrant guard I mean. Use an Rp to give them ignore ap-1/2 and when they level up give them +1 hit with weapons so the claws arent a drawback.
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Post by panzerfront on Apr 4, 2021 5:10:07 GMT
Honestly Tyrant Guard either need to go up in durability, go down in cost, gain offense or some combination of the two.
Personally I think they should gain some serious durability, their job is too eat bullets and spit brass, not be a wrecking ball in their own right, that's for carnifexen. I'd personally love to see them gain a fourth wound and a 2+ save, plus some extra hitting power on their weapons. They clearly have a lot more mass than warriors perhaps a "Large" Bonesword and Lashwhip type deal with stats between the regular and the monstrous variety could be in order. But I'd rather them be stupid durable rather than be wrecking balls.
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Post by purestrain on Apr 4, 2021 13:10:34 GMT
>using relic scythes >without murderous size I don't understand. Your opponent will just ignore him. "Oh no, scary unkillable tyrant, it kills... 3 marines per turn?" Why HVC? He can't shoot in melee with it and he will certainly be stuck in it with his number of kills in it. What does it accomplish? It is not controlling objectives. It is not flipping them. It can't kill serious threats. A distraction? Maybe, but it won't work against experienced opponents. Or any opponent with a half decent grasp on how to scure objectives in 9th. Deathwing terminators in particular will laugh at a "super" behemoth tyrant (not that super anymore when you see the last codices relased).
I think loading up on tyrant guards ATM is possibly the worst play one can go for with nids.
I guess a half decent grasp on how to play 9th is to just say "darkangels X so you suck". Just avoid the 300 pound guy painting his models in haste to "play a friendly game" with you and its much more fun.
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Post by hiveoverall on Apr 4, 2021 17:19:58 GMT
TG are currently the worst brawler infantry unit in the game, no need to dwell on dark angel terminators. Bullgryns, drukari grotesques, you can go on and on. I just don’t see much merit in discussing TG right now. Hopefully they will be great in our next codex, I have a bunch of them.
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Post by piersonsmuppet on Apr 4, 2021 17:26:07 GMT
Honestly Tyrant Guard either need to go up in durability, go down in cost, gain offense or some combination of the two. Personally I think they should gain some serious durability, their job is too eat bullets and spit brass, not be a wrecking ball in their own right, that's for carnifexen. I'd personally love to see them gain a fourth wound and a 2+ save, plus some extra hitting power on their weapons. They clearly have a lot more mass than warriors perhaps a "Large" Bonesword and Lashwhip type deal with stats between the regular and the monstrous variety could be in order. But I'd rather them be stupid durable rather than be wrecking balls. I don't think they need more durability, instead they need is to be similar to Deathshroud Terminators. Give Tyrant Guard the Bodyguard Aura, but for HIVE TYRANT units only instead of CHARACTERS. They should "enrage" any nearby Tyrants when they die instead of themselves, sort of in the line of the Tyrant becoming more aggressive now that they are vulnerable. They are probably never going to have great stat-lines for offense or defense, and they don't need the point sink that improvements would cause. As you said yourself, Carnifex should be used for the role that "offensive" TG want to fill. Maybe the aura is too powerful for W10+ models, but we also can't use it to protect our weaker CHARACTERS from snipers (I think that balances out) like DST can. If they had the above improvements, the OP's list would be viable and thematically fun (TG bodyguard aura could be adjusted to select one Tyrant before the first battle round to prevent too much power-creep).
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Post by kazetanade on Apr 5, 2021 5:18:33 GMT
Honestly they should just increase it's durability, then make them Tau drones. Take the entire hit, not drip feed it as mortal wounds. No one is going to think not being able to shoot Flyrants and Walkrants and Swarmlord is a sensible interaction.
As it is right now, TG need a severe price drop since they're just an additional wounds reservoir that hides behind LOS blocking, letting SL be a bit more aggressive without being absolutely punked for it.
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Post by purestrain on Apr 5, 2021 13:06:48 GMT
Honestly Tyrant Guard either need to go up in durability, go down in cost, gain offense or some combination of the two. Personally I think they should gain some serious durability, their job is too eat bullets and spit brass, not be a wrecking ball in their own right, that's for carnifexen. I'd personally love to see them gain a fourth wound and a 2+ save, plus some extra hitting power on their weapons. They clearly have a lot more mass than warriors perhaps a "Large" Bonesword and Lashwhip type deal with stats between the regular and the monstrous variety could be in order. But I'd rather them be stupid durable rather than be wrecking balls. I don't think they need more durability, instead they need is to be similar to Deathshroud Terminators. Give Tyrant Guard the Bodyguard Aura, but for HIVE TYRANT units only instead of CHARACTERS. They should "enrage" any nearby Tyrants when they die instead of themselves, sort of in the line of the Tyrant becoming more aggressive now that they are vulnerable. They are probably never going to have great stat-lines for offense or defense, and they don't need the point sink that improvements would cause. As you said yourself, Carnifex should be used for the role that "offensive" TG want to fill. Maybe the aura is too powerful for W10+ models, but we also can't use it to protect our weaker CHARACTERS from snipers (I think that balances out) like DST can. If they had the above improvements, the OP's list would be viable and thematically fun (TG bodyguard aura could be adjusted to select one Tyrant before the first battle round to prevent too much power-creep). they already affect Hive Tyrant, making the tyrants rage makes no sense, its not a mindless being, hive tyrants are smart. They should have two more wounds and a 3+ plink wound abiility with a 4+ fnp for it. Have it reroll 1s like in killteam if hes affected by 2 (ie himself and levi, or catalyst) I cant even remember how many melee fights my Patty has survived because of Unquestioning loyalty. Imagine if Tyrand guard worked like above? waste of time to try to kill a tyrant
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Post by piersonsmuppet on Apr 5, 2021 15:45:57 GMT
I don't think they need more durability, instead they need is to be similar to Deathshroud Terminators. Give Tyrant Guard the Bodyguard Aura, but for HIVE TYRANT units only instead of CHARACTERS. They should "enrage" any nearby Tyrants when they die instead of themselves, sort of in the line of the Tyrant becoming more aggressive now that they are vulnerable. They are probably never going to have great stat-lines for offense or defense, and they don't need the point sink that improvements would cause. As you said yourself, Carnifex should be used for the role that "offensive" TG want to fill. Maybe the aura is too powerful for W10+ models, but we also can't use it to protect our weaker CHARACTERS from snipers (I think that balances out) like DST can. If they had the above improvements, the OP's list would be viable and thematically fun (TG bodyguard aura could be adjusted to select one Tyrant before the first battle round to prevent too much power-creep). they already affect Hive Tyrant, making the tyrants rage makes no sense, its not a mindless being, hive tyrants are smart. They should have two more wounds and a 3+ plink wound abiility with a 4+ fnp for it. Have it reroll 1s like in killteam if hes affected by 2 (ie himself and levi, or catalyst) I cant even remember how many melee fights my Patty has survived because of Unquestioning loyalty. Imagine if Tyrand guard worked like above? waste of time to try to kill a tyrant I like the parallel to Unquestioning Loyalty, but I think a less confusing way might be to make the TG have a 4+++ vs mortals only. That way it interacts with their rule, but doesn't increase their inherent durability too much outside of the rule (probably would help reduce points). Kind of works thematically too I think, pyskers affecting them less due to their extra mindless-ness. If that's too much, can always just slap an "outside the psychic phase" clause (Hounds of Morkai have this exact thing for psychic phase only, so well within bounds I think).
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Post by panzerfront on Apr 6, 2021 14:19:09 GMT
I don't think they need more durability, instead they need is to be similar to Deathshroud Terminators. Give Tyrant Guard the Bodyguard Aura, but for HIVE TYRANT units only instead of CHARACTERS. They should "enrage" any nearby Tyrants when they die instead of themselves, sort of in the line of the Tyrant becoming more aggressive now that they are vulnerable. They are probably never going to have great stat-lines for offense or defense, and they don't need the point sink that improvements would cause. As you said yourself, Carnifex should be used for the role that "offensive" TG want to fill. Maybe the aura is too powerful for W10+ models, but we also can't use it to protect our weaker CHARACTERS from snipers (I think that balances out) like DST can. If they had the above improvements, the OP's list would be viable and thematically fun (TG bodyguard aura could be adjusted to select one Tyrant before the first battle round to prevent too much power-creep). they already affect Hive Tyrant, making the tyrants rage makes no sense, its not a mindless being, hive tyrants are smart. They should have two more wounds and a 3+ plink wound abiility with a 4+ fnp for it. Have it reroll 1s like in killteam if hes affected by 2 (ie himself and levi, or catalyst) I cant even remember how many melee fights my Patty has survived because of Unquestioning loyalty. Imagine if Tyrand guard worked like above? waste of time to try to kill a tyrant My Tyrant Guard have gotten some use out of protecting my Hive Tyrant but frankly I almost always wonder if bringing my other tyrant wouldn't just be a better investment. Helps my opponents often confuse my Carnifiexen with Tyrants. But seriously Tyrant guard barely hit harder than warriors on a per model basis, and once you bring in the fact that 2 warriors cost the same as one tyrant guard with identical loadouts. Either bring in another Tier of Tyranid weaponry for moderately sized Tyranid creatures or make them tougher. the fluff around these guys is all about how durable they are, to the point that they don't have eyes to avoid the weakspot. An extra wound or a 2+ save would be welcome at the current price point. Those aura abilities sound nice, I personally focus on stat line improvements or adjustments for my own suggestions.
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