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Post by niiai on Mar 1, 2021 17:49:10 GMT
After getting tabeled by dakkajets I have now assembeled 2 leman russes.
I am running them with battle cannons. But what else? I am thinking lascannon and augor array. But the side sponsors multimelta or plasma? MM looks very good. But plasma means I can sit back and shoot away saftly.
I am testing out a 2x flamer chimera. I also have 6 ridgerunners in my list. Any insight on how to run (GSC) leman russes is welcome.
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Post by kazetanade on Mar 2, 2021 3:24:50 GMT
now that multimelta get 2 shots, they're a lot better than the used to be - hitting on a 3+ but -1 modifier, that's 4 shots, 2 hits, at least 1 wound, so together with your Demolisher turret, that's pretty much nearly confirm death on any Flier assuming you're an IG TC. As a GSC LR, it's quite close to confirmed kill on average I think.
But it is also a huge point sink model so... take with salt. But assuming TCs can take MMs (which I do not remember them being able to take MMs as side sponsons), that makes them a very strong platform for us to carry what's considered one of the best anti-tank guns right now.
Definitely go with Demolishers instead of BCs though. Although range is an issue, the Demolisher Cannon is well suited for this edition, wounding all major infantry threats on a 2+ (to offset the 3+ or 4+ to hit), and having D6 damage means you'll more often kill off a major threat model with single dice roll, compared to the BC that will take nearly double the number of shots to do so. IG's set is so strong since it's 30", but SM are making 24" work fine and most major armies are working on mid range weapons more than long range anyway.
I would only recommend bringing as Tank Commanders though, unless you're willing to double up to like 4 or 5 LRs on the table. IIRC for every 3 TCs you can bring like 4 LRs? Since we dont have extra consistent number of shots, more models works in our favour better since you can hope variance swings in your favour.
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Post by beetlejuice on Mar 2, 2021 10:40:08 GMT
Cult leman russes can only take battle cannon, nova eradicator cannon, exterminator autocannon or vanquisher battlecannon (unless I’m missing some post codex update) so if you really want them just pay 2 CP for AM patrol and make them demolisher tank commanders.
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Post by niiai on Mar 2, 2021 10:57:55 GMT
Owning 2 leman russes, some guard infantry, a chimera and some mortars I could play them as Astra Militarum. But I have none of the books to do it. And it anoys me that a pure codex can not be played.
So I would not know any of the stratagem. And it so lousy that I would nee to go outside of the codex to do it.
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Post by Hive Bahamut on Mar 3, 2021 1:24:50 GMT
If they are Brood Bros from the GSC book* you equip them by deleting the entry in battlescribe and replacing it with Ridgerunners.
If you take allies you are already down the rabbit hole, so drop the GSC half and play an army that functions.
I have 3 and they have never ever done anything except chew up points.
*fixed*
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Post by kazetanade on Mar 3, 2021 5:40:11 GMT
If you meant the LRs in GSC codex, they are not good and wouldn't consider them at all right now. But if you really wanted to, BCs are still your best bet
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Post by niiai on Mar 3, 2021 12:57:06 GMT
I need more long range fire support. Mainly VS dakkajets. They fit the bill. I already have 6 ridge runners. Getting a 7th seems like such a hassle.
I was thinking also grabbing some chimera with heavy flamers. Hopefully I will not just crumble like leaves in a stiff breece.
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Post by Hive Bahamut on Mar 3, 2021 20:18:31 GMT
IMO if you want to use Lemans for AA take the Brood Bro Tank Commanders and give both Plasma so you can use the max shots stratagem. 18 BS 3-1 S8-3 2D will remove them pretty fast.
Or you know, you could ask your regular opponent not to be a deusch canoe and not take things you can't interact with.. I watched a "narrative" batrep of Deathwatch vs. GSC and the Deathwatch had 3 fliers. Game over at listbuilding.
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Post by kazetanade on Mar 4, 2021 17:41:07 GMT
I mean, like HB said, if you're bringing Leman Russes, you should bring them as a Brood Brothers IG detachment and bring them as Tank Commanders. He's right that there IS a strategem for auto max shots against a vehicle (with your double shoot, that's 12 shots of Demolishers), which is a guaranteed dead Dakkajet. If he's gonna stay out of 24" of you, he's not really gonna hurt your troops either, and will likely crash in bad places. (I think this strategem is only for top turret though, not 100% sure).
Plasma is also always fun to play with, if the points werent overpriced. But 6x2 + 3 + 3 is a lot a plasma, and will definitely confirm kill a dakkajet. 6 Ridgerunners and a 2nd TC will most likely also confirm kill on the 2nd Dakkajet.
Demolishers+Multimelta: 12A, 6H rr1s, 6.5H, 4W, 5++, 3F, 3+4+3 = 10D. Add Melta 4A, 2H, 1W, 5++, 1F, 4D; if he doesnt have a KFF in their range for some reason, or the KFF doesnt affect them, and he doesnt have the 6++ chapter tactic, it's an average overkill.
PlasmaRuss: 18A, 12A, 12.5H, 8W, 5++, 6F = 12D, not quite there yet but again if no KFF it's pretty much average kill at slightly longer range so you dont have to move and risk no double shoot. Added benefit of being useful against Marines, while Demolishers + Multimelta are much better against tougher enemies like DG with Mr Morty not liking to eat too many high D6d rolls.
The more I look at them, the more I think they're better than RC Bikers right now. T8 chassis with decent guns that takes focus to kill? Yes please. They're potentially even better than Ridgerunners, just slower moving.
RR - 140pts for T5 16W 4+, with 2d3 Lascannons + 12 shots of Stubber Basic LR - 160pts for T8 12W 3+, with 2d6 Demolishers + 3 shots of Bolter
.....it's not really much of a comparison. Actually, this is pretty damning...
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Post by niiai on Mar 5, 2021 12:57:34 GMT
In whose favour, the russ?
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Post by kazetanade on Mar 5, 2021 15:07:44 GMT
In whose favour, the russ? In the Russ' favour. The only advantage RRs have would be their much more superior movement, as an LR will only move 5" or less in order to maintain its damage output.
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Post by niiai on Mar 5, 2021 19:29:26 GMT
RR also get the +1 BS from the biker. And the excelent stratagem from FtGG.
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Post by Hive Bahamut on Mar 5, 2021 19:55:35 GMT
Tank Commanders are native BS3+ so that part is a wash, and I would say max shots is roughly = +1 to wound as well. The Tank Commander ironically doesn't need 6 other moving bits to function, just Orders from itself and that's it.
Tank Commanders are better in many cases, and that isn't a strong argument as they aren't exactly destroying the tournament scene right now.
Also, part of why I refuse to have more than 3 Ridgerunners, I can't see their time in the sun that long, more as a stop gap until codex release obsoletes some other playstyle the army hinged on.
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Post by niiai on Mar 10, 2021 14:32:26 GMT
Tank commanders are more expensive though. Starts at 175+ bolter and cannon so 195. By that point you need to compare them to 3 ridge runners for 210 points.
Just a regular Russ with cannon and bolter is 160 VS 2 ridge runners at 140.
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kukie
Genestealer
Posts: 60
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Post by kukie on Mar 11, 2021 1:54:50 GMT
Tank Commanders are great but you lose CP by taking a detachment of Brood Brothers. plus they don't get the special guard traits or the Tank ACE rules so I personally think they are too expensive. In some match ups they would be great. if you play nothing but orks or some other army that can't shoot a leman russ off the table then I'd say go for the Tank Commander all day. I've brought my Tank Commanders with my GSC in a few games, recently against Death Guard, and they just couldn't do enough damage before the Death Guard walked across the field and killed everything (the Vengence for Cadia Strat did help some though). When I played them against Space Marines the Tank Commander wasn't able to wipe out a squad of 5 intercessors. And I haven't played against Harlequins with my Tank Commanders but I imagine Haywire would shred them. The Tank Commanders had a time in the sun last year when they were about around 175 points for a loaded out tank. They aren't as good as Guard with the special rules (Catachan, Talleran, Cadian, ect.) but they were cheap enough and you actually got extra CP for bringing more detachments. With the way 9th edition works now (losing CP for separate detatchments) and the point increase, I don't see any advantage for running Tank Commanders over Ridgerunners now.
I agree with Nilai;
one Tank Commander at base: 195 points
D6 battle cannon shots (2D6 if you move 5") so average 7 shots at str8, -2 AP, D3 damage Heavy bolter: heavy 3, str5, -1 AP, 2 damage BS3+ (can re-role 1s with orders) T8 12 wounds 3+ save
3 ridgerunners: 210 points D3 heavy mining shots (2 average), x3 ridgerunners is 6 mining lasor shots Str9, -3 AP, D6 damage 6 heavy stubber shots (x 3 ridgerunners) is 18 shots of str4, no AP, 1 damage BS4+ (3+ with Jackel) T5 8 wounds (6+++ with flare), x3 ridgerunners is 24 wounds that doesn't degrade
Ridgerunners are faster, hit harder, have more wounds (overall per points).
I do like the idea of a Leman Russ (not Tank Commander) to sit in the back field kitted out with flamers (2 sponsons and 1 hull) just to have some long range threat and flamers to hold it's own incase deep strikers try to tag it. It would also be a great distraction Carnifex type unit. But true Tank Commanders for GSC don't seem to be instyle for me at this time.
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