Armoured list?

[kazetanade]

niiai

Look at it this way:

5 man Rusted Cult Bikers with Jackal gives you: 5d3 shots (for an average of 10 shots); hitting on 4+, +1 for Jackal +1 for RC, -1 for Flier, 3+ to hit. S8 vs T6-7, with +1 to wound for 2+ to wound. AP-3 d3 damage for average 2.

10A, 6-7H, 5-6W, No save(or 6++ somewhere), 5F. average 10D.

You spend whatever it is for the bikes and Jackal (I estimate around 250pts which is deffo over).


LRTCs you get 2D6 shots or 40 shots (assumed in range so no need move to get double shoot)

4+ to hit (3+ natural -1 for Flier) means average of 7A, 3-4H, 2W-3W, no save, D6 damage = 7-10D
OR: 40A, 20H, 7W, 6F = 6D

Which means minimum you need to spend for TWO of these Tank Commanders for it to make sense, regardless which one you pick. Whereas the RC allows you to snipe a single Flier kill with some Ridge Runner support.

What does this mean? It means that if you are facing more than 1 Flier, it will be MORE EFFECTIVE for you to bring 2 Leman Russ Tank Commanders (or 3 LRs for the same output, albeit swingy issues) despite spending more than 3x the amount than for the Bikes, but if you are dealing with less vehicles and in general only need to snipe 1 or 2 vehicles, you are better off with the suicide drop.

I have been an advocate against BB tanks for the longest time, but I would honestly suggest you to try the BB tanks instead of the RC Bikes. RC Bikes creates too much of an issue for us in this new edition with CP issues, detachment and cult restriction issues, and cannot slip into an army properly whereas the LRs can. Just be prepared for a lot of feels bad moments when you roll badly on the D6 shots/ D6 damage or cant roll 5+ to wound (which is the exact reason why I dont like them outside of IG, double shoot barely makes them "not suck" esp compared to the Exocrene).

Another (good, IMO) option we can consider is opened up to the AM codex similar to ours, which is for Plasma Drops via Scions or from the side of the board. Change for melta as you like. Gunnerside is trying this and I hope he finds good results - I had decent results with the IG version which is decisively better due to longer range and better save, and even then it was often EVEN at best as I would often be facing difficulties closer to the home front where things are in my face and trying to deny my LRs the chance to shoot. Of course, if your home front is well secured, then this isnt going to be a big issue.

[hiveoverall]

Bullgryns suffer against terminators and BGVs, else they would be great. They just need an extra AP for a few extra PpM

[kukie]

I don't have the models to make it happen but I think I could make a pure GSC armoured army work. Like lots of people have said and I completely agree, the RIDGERUNNER is probably one of the strongest units in the codex.

I'd take 9 Ridgerunners (maxed out), Jackle Alphus, as many neophytes with minning lasors riding in trucks I could cram in there and a Magus or some other HQ choice to fill out a battalion. Through in some bikes or sentinels if you want but you got lots of firepower and lots of OpSec bodies.

The Leman Russ is NOT good right now, I wouldn't waste the points on it. and a detachment of Broodbrothers for the Tank Commander is... oK??? maybe, kinda thematic I guess for friendly games but Exocrines with Kronos way outperform Tank Commanders (and they are cheaper). to put it in perspective about the Leman Russ (160 points for just the battle cannon (2D6 shots at 8 -2 D3 damage) and an Exocrine (12 shots at 7 -3 2 damage) with strategems and psychic spells to buff the 3 damage and exploding 6s @ 170 points. both are T8 and 12 wounds and the Exocrine can shoot in combat because it's not "blast" so it can't get tagged like the Leman Russ. (but that Leman Russ/Exocrine issue is a whole different debate).

But yeah I'd run 9 Ridgerunners, a Jackle Alphe, loads of neophytes in trucks.. never ran that list before as I don't have the models but it's mobile, killy and survivable... good for 9th ed

[kazetanade]

Feb 9, 2021 3:05:24 GMT kukie said:

I don't have the models to make it happen but I think I could make a pure GSC armoured army work. Like lots of people have said and I completely agree, the RIDGERUNNER is probably one of the strongest units in the codex.

I'd take 9 Ridgerunners (maxed out), Jackle Alphus, as many neophytes with minning lasors riding in trucks I could cram in there and a Magus or some other HQ choice to fill out a battalion. Through in some bikes or sentinels if you want but you got lots of firepower and lots of OpSec bodies.

The Leman Russ is NOT good right now, I wouldn't waste the points on it. and a detachment of Broodbrothers for the Tank Commander is... oK??? maybe, kinda thematic I guess for friendly games but Exocrines with Kronos way outperform Tank Commanders (and they are cheaper). to put it in perspective about the Leman Russ (160 points for just the battle cannon (2D6 shots at 8 -2 D3 damage) and an Exocrine (12 shots at 7 -3 2 damage) with strategems and psychic spells to buff the 3 damage and exploding 6s @ 170 points. both are T8 and 12 wounds and the Exocrine can shoot in combat because it's not "blast" so it can't get tagged like the Leman Russ. (but that Leman Russ/Exocrine issue is a whole different debate).

But yeah I'd run 9 Ridgerunners, a Jackle Alphe, loads of neophytes in trucks.. never ran that list before as I don't have the models but it's mobile, killy and survivable... good for 9th ed

It's killy until a unit of Outriders advance and charge into your Ridgerunners on T1, after which you will be saying "why is SM so OP". 

It's also d3 shots with d6 damage, you will hate it immensely when you get a 1 or 2 damage roll on that gun. The inherent weakness of the Ridgerunner is unfortunately not really compensated for by its inherent strengths. 

Top of 9th I had been playing nearly fully mechanized GSC - it's got problems scoring, it's got problems sticking damage, it's got problems brawling. It's got a lot of problems, and you might not be able to fix most of them. If you feel you can make them work, then work out - it's good to hear of successes and the lists that people were taking to high placings in events is always a good indication that the army has teeth. Art of War rated GSCs as a B tier army while Tyranids as a C tier army (although I strongly disagree with this placing). Just be aware of the actual shortfalls and how to make up for it. 

[hivemind03]

Checkout Goonhammer's article for a less opinion based view of GsC's standing.

www.goonhammer.com/the-february-2021-40k-meta-review/

[Hive Bahamut]

This is about where I see them.

Literally 0 tools in the meta.

Deepstrike dead from Infiltrators or Wiped by Auspex.

Vehicles trashed by all the extra AP being tossed around.

T3 5+ just as easy to clean out minus blast bonuses.

Nevermind the most restrictions on an army that pays premiums for nothing. (Compare a Magus to a Librarian or even Primaris Psyker.)

+6VP seems about right. Although I think even starting with 10 vs Custodes/Harlequins might not be enough.

[hivefleetkerrigan]

Interesting idea on the points handicap. Honestly, I think a faction specific CP handicap could work as well. GSC need all the CP they can get just to function, while it's a "nice to have" for other factions. If GSC started at 18 CP at 2k points (pretty much they way we had to play in 8e), then I think they would have a much better shot at functioning than they do today.

[hivemind03]

Feb 9, 2021 15:31:05 GMT Hive Bahamut said:

This is about where I see them.

Literally 0 tools in the meta.

Deepstrike dead from Infiltrators or Wiped by Auspex.

Vehicles trashed by all the extra AP being tossed around.

T3 5+ just as easy to clean out minus blast bonuses.

Nevermind the most restrictions on an army that pays premiums for nothing. (Compare a Magus to a Librarian or even Primaris Psyker.)

+6VP seems about right. Although I think even starting with 10 vs Custodes/Harlequins might not be enough.

I dont like that idea of handicaps. We already have a good method for balancing. Points adjustment. Its just too bad that GW decided to reduce points on key Custodes units(!?), leave Harlequins untouched, and actually nerf GsC!

[Hive Bahamut]

Part of why I at least enjoy others coming up with ideas. Quite clear GW doesn't actually want any semblance of balance or the disparity wouldn't be there in a digital world.

A shame. Bat reps are even getting short because of the constant blowouts. I watched a Nid against Dark Angels and GSC against Daemons list and both games were over by turn 2. Turned them off. I have never done that before. Pointless to watch get dummied by an autopilot army of stat blocks. Secondaries are turning dangerous too as many are becoming auto include unavailable to everyone else.