1st turn even more important in 9th?

[Hive Bahamut]

First turn has always had a large benefit and I feel like most batreps and reports I read the first turn basically won the game in 9th.

Is this the common consensus? Is there anyway to mitigate this?

[hiveelysium]

.

[dranzyl]

I am not an expert but just to get the conversation rolling i'll give it a shot.
Use lots of view blocking terrain on the table, hide from line of sight, reserve what units you can to keep them safe, focus on objectives even if you're almost wiped you can still win.
Generally the fear of being seized upon was thought to lead to more conservative deployments. Since thats gone we can expect deployments to try to maximize the impact of an alpha strike.

[No One]

dranzyl said:

Generally the fear of being seized upon was thought to lead to more conservative deployments. Since thats gone we can expect deployments to try to maximize the impact of an alpha strike.

Seize (outside of scenarios like late 8th where it's a 'guarantee' who goes first) doesn't matter. Look at it this way: after you deploy, it's a 50/50 of if you go first or 2nd. You can deploy for the alpha, with a 50% chance of copping it. That's exactly the same as with seize.

The problem isn't so much that you can alpha people off the board, it's just that there's no power to going 2nd at all. So even if you both deploy conservatively so that there's minimal alpha, you still pick 1st so that you can start doing your stuff (objectives, reserves, psychics, midfield positioning, chip damage etc) before your opponent. And if you both deployed aggressively, you get to alpha.

[timcz]

www.goonhammer.com/go-first-and-prosper-looking-at-the-9th-edition-meta/

Goonhammer did a good article about going first.

[nackanid]

My tournaments have been using some of the ITC-standard from 8th. The roll off for attacker and defender happens before the deployment. Attacker always goes first. Give the defender a chance to hide and counter the attacker.

It’s a start

[beetlejuice]

I think the easiest fix would be to give the player who goes second a 6th command phase but maybe cap the number of VPs from that phase at 10. At least that way the player who goes first still has to play to objectives in their last turn.

[dc0315]

Shouldve just made 9th alternate activations like star wars legion but then that would give 40k some semblance of BaLaNcE and GW cant have that nerf their beloved marines!

[yoritomo]

The problem is progressive scoring objectives. If objectives were scored only at the end of the game then the player who went second has the ability to shoot the first player off objectives and deny them victory points after their game is effectively over.

[winterman]

Sept 12, 2020 7:14:12 GMT timcz said:

www.goonhammer.com/go-first-and-prosper-looking-at-the-9th-edition-meta/

Goonhammer did a good article about going first.

Its a great article, but like anything related to stats it gets mis-characterized. That's just a snap shot, based on samples from really two different metas. It's based on new lists and players, still adjusting to the new rules. For events with new TOs, also adjusting to the new rules.

There's stats from other metas like Aussie's where its closer to 50/50.

That is not to say the stats and take-aways aren't important or false (for those events 1st turn was significant without a doubt). The take-away should not be 'I will lose going second', it should be 'what can I do to not lose going second' and 'why was second turn losing so often in those events'.

You can make lists and playstyle to minimize the effect of going first, especially with good terrain. Many players will, but most players will just do what they always do and zerg/play for kills. For local events, do what you can to promote and help get terrain up to snuff for 9th.

[garg]

Sept 12, 2020 10:41:09 GMT dc0315 said:

Shouldve just made 9th alternate activations like star wars legion but then that would give 40k some semblance of BaLaNcE and GW cant have that nerf their beloved marines!

How many units did each side have in Star wars and can they target more than one unit?
I think alternate activations works well in warcry because you only have ~5 units a side who can do 2 actions. In 40k it's more like 8-10 and each can do many more actions.

[wormlord666]

The advantage of going first is not so much for killing a lot, in my experience. We play with lots of terrain so it’s easy to hide. But the abilty to take the bord right away, push you opponent back is huge. If you can se to that you get a 15-5 lead on primarys after T2, as a result of the first turn push, then you can play on that lead.

If you can counter that push somehow you might punsch them for it.

[purestrain]

See those new Destroyers necrons have? goodbye warrior spam. Every 3man unit will be able to clear out a max pack of warriors easily.

[dranzyl]

Were all of the destroyers attacks d2 or only the main blades?

[purestrain]

Sept 13, 2020 22:52:42 GMT dranzyl said:

Were all of the destroyers attacks d2 or only the main blades?

the main blades are ap-4 and Damage 3

They then get 1 more attack at ap-3 2d and 2 more and -1 1d