What are our most durable units?

[hivefleetkerrigan]

Aug 4, 2020 11:22:41 GMT timcz said:

Aug 4, 2020 11:17:10 GMT purestrain said:

Zoans are a trap, you only need to bad touch them with (please do not swear) troops in order for them to be completely useless as you cant cast if you fell back.

Pyrovore seem really good as a "try it, I dare you" obj holder unit... if they could reach 5 models in a unit.

Actually that’s a really good point I hadn’t thought of...

Smite your way out and have a unit there to counter punch? You could have a unit with the heroic intervention adaptation, but they can swing at you if you heroically intervene. Another option is to have a hive tyrant nearby with chaff MRC and a chat clearing gun. You can fight, shoot, smite, and then fight to clear the enemy troops.

[zimko]

The solution to that problem is to not get in melee with chaff. Warriors are decent at killing chaff and make for a decent screen.

[Iryan]

The vast majority of *cheap* chaff should not be mobile enough to get to your backline zoans without you being able to see it coming and intervene/plan for it. If you let a 20 model blob of worthless infantry just walk past your lines and charge your zoans, that is a tactical mistake you should usually be able to avoid. If it is something speedy like jumppack marines, genestealers or what have you, those are basically already worth smiting, so that would not be a big loss. Provided the zoans survive the attack.

[gorsameth]

Aug 4, 2020 12:45:59 GMT zimko said:

The solution to that problem is to not get in melee with chaff. Warriors are decent at killing chaff and make for a decent screen.

The point was to use Zoanthropes instead of Warriors as a tough unit to sit on an objective.

Taking a Warrior unit to screen Zoanthropes with seems counter-intuitive to the original point.

[purestrain]

Aug 4, 2020 12:45:11 GMT hivefleetkerrigan said:

Aug 4, 2020 11:22:41 GMT timcz said:

Actually that’s a really good point I hadn’t thought of...

Smite your way out and have a unit there to counter punch? You could have a unit with the heroic intervention adaptation, but they can swing at you if you heroically intervene. Another option is to have a hive tyrant nearby with chaff MRC and a chat clearing gun. You can fight, shoot, smite, and then fight to clear the enemy troops.

Sure, but they already took your objective for 1 turn, denying you that VP and forcing some unwanted combat seems favorable for the enemy.

[hivefleetkerrigan]

Aug 4, 2020 13:11:52 GMT purestrain said:

Aug 4, 2020 12:45:11 GMT hivefleetkerrigan said:

Smite your way out and have a unit there to counter punch? You could have a unit with the heroic intervention adaptation, but they can swing at you if you heroically intervene. Another option is to have a hive tyrant nearby with chaff MRC and a chat clearing gun. You can fight, shoot, smite, and then fight to clear the enemy troops.

Sure, but they already took your objective for 1 turn, denying you that VP and forcing some unwanted combat seems favorable for the enemy.

Per my last post:
You could have a unit with the heroic intervention adaptation

[Bohxim]

Why not just don't fall back and smite into combat? They are tanky enough to resist harder hitting things.
I'd rather they be swinging hard into my zoan than the other monstrous creatures
Just my opinion

[xsquidz]

Aug 4, 2020 14:08:23 GMT Bohxim said:

Why not just don't fall back and smite into combat? They are tanky enough to resist harder hitting things.
I'd rather they be swinging hard into my zoan than the other monstrous creatures
Just my opinion

The problem is 10 (please do not swear) guardsmen could ruin your day, they charge the zoans, even if you smite 2d3 off, you won't kill the whole squad and with the new morale at least 1 will be alive and they are obj sec and you just lost the objective for 2 turns, the turn they charged you and stole it and your next turn you failed to kill them so you lose it for another start.

I am not saying zoans are bad, but they have weaknesses for sure.

[deedus]

If you have 5 of them, could you spread them around the marker far enough to prevent the guardsmen from being within 3" from the marker?

[acehilator]

Aug 4, 2020 19:19:05 GMT deedus said:

If you have 5 of them, could you spread them around the marker far enough to prevent the guardsmen from being within 3" from the marker?

If you can make it, that should be best practices in a lot of situations anyways. Just be careful not to invite unwanted charges.

[xsquidz]

Aug 4, 2020 19:39:30 GMT acehilator said:

Aug 4, 2020 19:19:05 GMT deedus said:

If you have 5 of them, could you spread them around the marker far enough to prevent the guardsmen from being within 3" from the marker?

If you can make it, that should be best practices in a lot of situations anyways. Just be careful not to invite unwanted charges.

Between charges and piling in, consolidating etc I don't think that is possible but I haven't actually set it up and measured it out or anything.  They aren't on massive bases.

[kazetanade]

The issue with bad touch for this is not that we cannot remove them, it's that you've lost the obj for a turn and won't have scored Primaries.

This problem would be the same for any elite army that tries to hold objectives with tank units (sans Custodes because they are all obsec), not unique to Zoeys.

This would even be true for Warriors, as Warriors will not have 9 models within 3" of the obj, whereas that 10 man infantry squad will. So I do not think this is an easily avoidable issue, other than screening exceptionally well so that they can't get to the objective in the first place.

2d3 + 6 smite damage should clear chaff. It's a bit of a waste but it's not impossible. The key consideration point is that this potential 3d3+9 smite is going to be key in removing a LOT of potentially aggravating armies anvils, which they base the midfield scrum around, and warriors/TG can't do that. Warriors have a bit more flexibility and demand to be killed first (which isn't the hardest thing in the world to do, but takes enough effort), while TG are kinda hard to kill while enabling a SL or something.

[acehilator]

Aug 4, 2020 20:49:14 GMT xsquidz said:

Between charges and piling in, consolidating etc I don't think that is possible but I haven't actually set it up and measured it out or anything.  They aren't on massive bases.

Lashwhips help with the Consolidate problem

[purestrain]

A vendetta gunship can fly in from the side, drop its drop squad and leave air combat (pretty sure you can jump in and out of reserves at the same time)?

But still, those rocket pods would do good work on zoans, if they're MT with +1 but from disembark they're going to plas them to death, but is costly.

Not saying its comp but could happen

[Kitane]

I was looking towards the warriors with enhanced resistance right until I saw eradicators and now the leaked multi-melta change (2 shots, 1d6+2 damage at half range) and stats of the Space Mario carts that will be carrying them. That profile counters warriors hard. Like pre-8th edition instant death from S8 kind of hard.

The only advantage is that those shots aren't going at monsters, a small consolation, I need those warriors to live.