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Post by jacobi on Jul 23, 2020 19:47:01 GMT
Hello Hive!
I was thinking of gathering some ideas for competetive play that might work in the coming tournament meta and start discussions about the most effecient plays.
Some things I want to try out:
>30 devourergaunts with Deathleaper - Put devilgaunts in reserve and start DL om the field. Turn 2 you doublemove Deathleaper with metabolic overdrive, use pheromone trail and suddenly you may have an objective secure unit close to anything that can shoot 180 strength 4 shots.
>Walking Hive tyrants with 4 devourers and pathogenesis relic - maybe too expensive but this guy can shoot in combat now and if killed Death frenzy is better than ever cause you will almost certainly kill something in return
>Kronos Exocrines in strategic reserve - these guys with symbiostorm are great. From reserve they will at least be able to shoot once and you will likely be able to shoot something important when you have 36 inch range
What do you guys think of these? Add on your thoughts and your ideas!
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Post by dranzyl on Jul 23, 2020 21:43:50 GMT
I may be wrong but i dont think you can shoot in mellee instead of attacking. Unless you werent refering to the strat to lets you fight when you die.
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Post by jacobi on Jul 23, 2020 22:04:18 GMT
I was referring to the death frenzy strat. As far as I’ve understood it you may now choose to shoot if the Hive tyrant is killed in cc. For example I’ve been playing a lot against space wolves with thunder hammers and storm shields. Since they have so many attacks they tend to kill my Hive tyrants in cc. Now even with monstrous rending claws I never found it especially useful to use death frenzy since my attacks just bounce of a storm shield, but if I can shoot 24 devourer shots at my killers then I am much more interested.
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Synaptic Scourge
Genestealer
For a predatory species, Tyranids have awfully clean teeth...
Posts: 83
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Post by Synaptic Scourge on Jul 24, 2020 1:27:20 GMT
I was referring to the death frenzy strat. As far as I’ve understood it you may now choose to shoot if the Hive tyrant is killed in cc. For example I’ve been playing a lot against space wolves with thunder hammers and storm shields. Since they have so many attacks they tend to kill my Hive tyrants in cc. Now even with monstrous rending claws I never found it especially useful to use death frenzy since my attacks just bounce of a storm shield, but if I can shoot 24 devourer shots at my killers then I am much more interested. That is a good catch.
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Post by kazetanade on Jul 24, 2020 3:45:39 GMT
Strategic reserves for Devilgants will be expensive - 8pts or 10pts, 30 of them is 240 or 300, which is 12-15 PL and 2cp to reserve. 1cp to bring in with DL, that's 3cp spent on this unit that still can't come in within 9" of the enemy meaning you're screened off objectives.
The volume of shots is good though, but I'd only consider it if I was playing Jormungandr and bring it with raveners. 5+sv Devilgants that no longer really cares about synapse, really good if expensive bomb.
Take note though that this unit only kills 5 Marines in cover. 300pts that cannot steal vp that trades into 85pts (best case gets 200pts of value since it attracts bullets like mad too), little hard to make it work unless you have like, multiples. 30 Gaunts is a kinda bleh, but 210 Gaunts is a Yes. But your back is gonna break playing that when not used to it.
Exocrene you can take it in a pod or Strategic Reserve it, I'm on "conserve CP mode" right now so pod it. Otherwise yes, that thing is my top performer every game in 8th because it just about kills its points back while soaking a fair amount of damage, and in my single game of 9th is my vp gainer/denyer.
Instead of a DL double move, a Gorgoyle double move would be better. If you can push them up on T1 (50% chance) and stop them from leaving their deployment zone cuz no FLY, you might have won the game, cuz you will score 15vp to their 5vp, and there are only 3 turns left for them to score. As long as you hold the minimum parity of 10vp a turn, you win by default.
But personally instead of that I'd prefer 6x10 Termagants/Hormagants to do that instead, you let them sit on objectives then send a unit up to die but Obsec it away from them. Most elite obsec infantry get 5 guys or 3 guys a unit, so you'll always get more people than them. If its non obsec, even 1 guy will do it. You could do this for 2 turns or 3 turns straight, that would basically auto win if they can't find a way to block you.
Other competitive tactics in 9th I haven't really seen any in our book. The Toxicrene might work since its an anti elite in an elite infantry meta, and its fallback denial thing could make things awkward for the enemy. Other than that, double smiting hasn't been fixed yet despite FAQ out already, so big unit of Zoeys double smiting kinda works if not consistent.
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Post by wormlord666 on Jul 24, 2020 5:15:20 GMT
I have 2 ideas to try: one Kronos one with 12 HG, 9 warriors, maleceptor, 6 zooanthropes and 1 exo. This is a hard-to-kill shooty castle with a few 10 gaunt squds to score with.
I have another idea with swarmlord, 3 broodlords, 4 10 man stealers one 20, 4 10 man hormagunts and 30 devgaunts. Devgaunts got a less hurt by points increas relatively speaking so they might be a thing. The idea with deathleaper was a clever one, I was just thinking normal reserves to blast away those backfield scoring units. This list is all about badtouching and dying, stealing points and hiding. The 20 stealer squad is for those 50% of games you can start...
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Post by Iryan on Jul 24, 2020 6:10:49 GMT
If slowing down the enemy from approaching the midfield is crucial, how effective do you think biovore spore blockades are going to be? Bring 60 'vores, intentionally move to get that -1 to hit, then drop 3~5 spore mines with 3'' distance between the individual mines. That's 10''~20'' long wall that the opponent cannot move past in the movement phase.
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Synaptic Scourge
Genestealer
For a predatory species, Tyranids have awfully clean teeth...
Posts: 83
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Post by Synaptic Scourge on Jul 24, 2020 6:17:36 GMT
Spore blocking is definitely valuable in the race to the center.
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Post by kazetanade on Jul 24, 2020 7:21:55 GMT
If slowing down the enemy from approaching the midfield is crucial, how effective do you think biovore spore blockades are going to be? Bring 60 'vores, intentionally move to get that -1 to hit, then drop 3~5 spore mines with 3'' distance between the individual mines. That's 10''~20'' long wall that the opponent cannot move past in the movement phase. Unless they FLY like Impulsors. But yes it's pretty good going into 9th ed for general use. Only thing is that Biovores aren't infantry apparently so they don't cop a negative when moving. They're always shooting at 4+ unless synapse targeting penalties. Or dense terrain.
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Post by beetlejuice on Jul 24, 2020 7:38:48 GMT
Codex datasheet says infantry. I know some 9th video guide messed it up.
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Post by jacobi on Jul 24, 2020 8:23:27 GMT
Strategic reserves for Devilgants will be expensive - 8pts or 10pts, 30 of them is 240 or 300, which is 12-15 PL and 2cp to reserve. 1cp to bring in with DL, that's 3cp spent on this unit that still can't come in within 9" of the enemy meaning you're screened off objectives. The volume of shots is good though, but I'd only consider it if I was playing Jormungandr and bring it with raveners. 5+sv Devilgants that no longer really cares about synapse, really good if expensive bomb. Take note though that this unit only kills 5 Marines in cover. 300pts that cannot steal vp that trades into 85pts (best case gets 200pts of value since it attracts bullets like mad too), little hard to make it work unless you have like, multiples. 30 Gaunts is a kinda bleh, but 210 Gaunts is a Yes. But your back is gonna break playing that when not used to it. Exocrene you can take it in a pod or Strategic Reserve it, I'm on "conserve CP mode" right now so pod it. Otherwise yes, that thing is my top performer every game in 8th because it just about kills its points back while soaking a fair amount of damage, and in my single game of 9th is my vp gainer/denyer. Instead of a DL double move, a Gorgoyle double move would be better. If you can push them up on T1 (50% chance) and stop them from leaving their deployment zone cuz no FLY, you might have won the game, cuz you will score 15vp to their 5vp, and there are only 3 turns left for them to score. As long as you hold the minimum parity of 10vp a turn, you win by default. But personally instead of that I'd prefer 6x10 Termagants/Hormagants to do that instead, you let them sit on objectives then send a unit up to die but Obsec it away from them. Most elite obsec infantry get 5 guys or 3 guys a unit, so you'll always get more people than them. If its non obsec, even 1 guy will do it. You could do this for 2 turns or 3 turns straight, that would basically auto win if they can't find a way to block you. Other competitive tactics in 9th I haven't really seen any in our book. The Toxicrene might work since its an anti elite in an elite infantry meta, and its fallback denial thing could make things awkward for the enemy. Other than that, double smiting hasn't been fixed yet despite FAQ out already, so big unit of Zoeys double smiting kinda works if not consistent. Wouldn't 30 devilgaunts be only 9 Power level, keeping it below the threshold for strategic reserves. You could save cp by not doublemoving the Deathleaper, you could just use his Hidden hunter rule to deepstrike turn 2, then directly afterwards in the same turn bring in the devilgaunts with pheromone trail. Should cost you 2 cp. You could go raveners and Jormundgandr tunnel, that's the way I used to run them, for 1 cp less but then you cannot charge afterwards and keep hive fleet bonus. With DL/lictor drop you could also pick custom hive fleet, like 6++ invul save which may or may not be better. They may not always be worth it, but generally you will find better targets. Don't shoot at something with 2+ save or T8, that's just throwing all those points away. I have played a lot with gargoyles recently in the end of 8th and I think they were the most underrated unit in the codex. Hated to move them around on the table, but the board control they gave was phenomenal. In 9th they don't look as hot, giving them a 40% price increase and the new coherency rules don't do them any favors. They still may be worth it though, board control seems to me like the most important part to win the new missions.
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Post by kazetanade on Jul 24, 2020 8:28:42 GMT
Board holding* more than control. We can control well by throwing bodies at it, because we used to score end of turn.
Good catch on 9PL and not 12, I forgot wargear PL works differently. 1cp to strategic reserves is pretty good, don't edit need to bring it in via lictor... Just pop out of a board edge.
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Post by Iryan on Jul 24, 2020 9:24:10 GMT
The main issue with biovores is that they went up a ridiculous 25% in points for some ungodly reason, so the question is whether 300 points is worth the board control this provides. The other issue is that they eat up a lot of heavy support slots so you are more or less forcing yourself into opening up another detachment if you want to use exocrines and whatnot, eating at your CP. Though then again, you might want an extra HQ slot or mix hivefleets to begin with, so maybe that is less big an issue as I think.
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Post by hivefleetkerrigan on Jul 24, 2020 11:25:51 GMT
The main issue with biovores is that they went up a ridiculous 25% in points for some ungodly reason, so the question is whether 300 points is worth the board control this provides. The other issue is that they eat up a lot of heavy support slots so you are more or less forcing yourself into opening up another detachment if you want to use exocrines and whatnot, eating at your CP. Though then again, you might want an extra HQ slot or mix hivefleets to begin with, so maybe that is less big an issue as I think. Biovores are back to where they were at points wise for most of 8e, but everything else increased in price. Comparatively, they're cheaper than they had been.
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Post by innerm on Jul 29, 2020 11:02:58 GMT
My try lists: 1. The Fun One: Vanguard with Swarmlord and 3 harsupexes in custom hive fleat (+1 on charge and heal one wound) battalion with 3 Exocrines, malanthrope and maleceptor. neuro and 3 reapers i swear this would be my list on first local champ 2. I think would be good in this edition: Batallion: 2/3 exocrines , 2 hive guards, lictor, some troops Vanguard(GSC boink): Patriarch, Magus, Kelermorph, Clamavus(Opressors bane), Sanctus(bio dagger)
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